Let me in or I'll poop

[luzmery928]

O.k so our little champ has a problem that if we lock him out of a room, he will poop and pee until we come out or let him in. This morning I went to do my daughter's hair in her room (he's not allowed in there since he is like the tazmanian devil in there) and he cried and scratched on the door and when I came out sure enough poop all over the living room floor. By the way, my husband had just brought him in from his morning walk. This happens all the time when he is left alone..any suggestions? We need help with my little champ

[gbroxon]

He gets anxious when he can't get to you. The anxiety causes stomach upset, so he poops/pees to relieve it.

Have you tried distracting him with something (like a filled kong, maybe, or an interactive toy or something yummy to chew on)? Something to keep him busy while you're out of his sight? This might manage his behavior.

To try to eliminate the behavior, though, it sounds like he might need some behavior modification in this area. Maybe something like shutting yourself out of sight for a few seconds at a time, then a half a minute, then a minute, then two minutes, you get the idea. Keep your leaving and coming back low key, until he gets the idea that yes, you leave, but yes, you come back.

Crating him for these periods may also be a management option.

BTW, the title of your thread made me LOL. I know it's not a funny situation, but I couldn't help myself!

[luzmery928]

OMG I can't believe this might me an emotional issue our poor baby. We were thinking he was doing it out of spite. We will try working with him by distracting him and buying him those interactive toys. Thank you so much for you advise, and yes well when we tell our stories to our family/friends they also get a kick out of his temper tamtrums.

[spitfirekrl1]

Not that I know a whole lot about this but it definately sounded like a seperation anxiety issue to me as well. There are many different methods I have seen on the internet. You may want to check all of them out and see which one works. In most of them distracting them, leaving for short periods of time (ignoring them when you come back in so they get that it's not a big deal you left in the first place) and crating seem to be the most effective methods.

[jessi76]

We were thinking he was doing it out of spite.

dogs do not know "spite", it's a human emotion.

the advice given by gbroxon is EXACTLY what I'd do too.

[luzmery928]

Great since once again it's good to hear that our champ is not a problem child. As a matter of fact today we went on a car ride with him and when one of us would get out of the car, he would let out some gas and now we are thinking that he might be dealing with some anxiety (our poor baby) but we will work on this issue and use your advise. About crate training though..I always used to think this was kind of harsh but now I'm considering it since I just don't want my house to smell like champs private bathroom (wood floors are hard to clean and then we all just end up sliding everywhere) can I use the crate as a time out when he misbehaves as when he bites and poops. I'd hate to have to leave him closed in the entire day.

[gbroxon]

To my way of thinking, a dog should consider their crate their own little safe space, so I wouldn't use it as a time-out place. JMO.

[luzmery928]

Yeah that what also a thought but since he is so used to being left out I'm afraid that although it might fix one issue, it might cause him other anxiety problems. All way I guess we'll just have to continue with the potty training using the wee wee pads and hope he starts learning to hold it in until we take him it. Accidents will happen I'm sure..hey Rome wasn't build in a day right

[alkite]

I wouldn't think of crate training as harsh. Both of my dogs stay in their crates during the day while my DH and I work. It is safer for them and for the house. In fact, we got Giz at the age of 3 and still managed to get him used to the crate in a few months. It took some persistance, but it works well for our schedules and for the dogs too.

[jys1011]

I love the idea of crates...gives them a safe place when they're stressed & keeps them out of trouble & my house in tact! :D

As a matter of fact they love it...they eat there...they get treats there...they rest there...they hide the toys they love in there!! :D :D

We were home this weekend (more than usual) during the day & seemed like TOPAZ was just restless. She couldn't settle down, couldn't get comfy even tho she LOVES being on the couch every night with us. She kept going in & out of her crate...finally it dawned on me that she WANTED to be crated. That's where she sleeps during the day all week so it was like she was stressed because she wasn't sure why she was out so long.

So I crated her & closed the door & she fell right to sleep for about 4 hours :eek: lol lol...my girl needs structure!

[gbroxon]

I'm sorry. When I responded about the crate being "their own little safe space," I wasn't thinking of crate training, per se, but the idea of using the crate as a time-out place for misbehavior, i.e., biting. I should have been more clear.

Crate training is a great thing when done properly! I just don't think a crate should be used as a punishment, that's all.

Being it seems your dog is experiencing anxiety-induced pooping because he can't get to you, I wouldn't put him in the crate after he poops, as a punishment. You might try putting him into the crate before you separate from him (maybe with something good to gnaw on?) to see if it keeps him poop-free while you're separated from each other.

[spitfirekrl1]

I've found that Alani too enjoys being in there and sometimes prefers to take naps in her crate rather than on the couch with us. She will go in her crate willingly in the mornings before I go to work and will lay down and start chewing on her nylabone. Dogs are naturally den animals and so they find comfort in in them.

Below is a link that is very helpful in the why's, why nots, dos and don'ts of crate training. Most of the websites out there say the same thing, I just liked this one the best.

http://www.siriusweb.com/AAD/crate.html

They all state that you want to create a happy place for them to go so you wouldn't want to have them associating it with punishment.

[luzmery928]

Sounds good. We're gonna look into that. She was in a crate while in her foster home and according to his foster mommy, he liked it. O.k thanks for the pros on crate training will keep you posted.

[luzmery928]

Well this morning I went into the bathroom with my daughter and left him alone for a while..he was busy with a bone so he didn't seem to mind and no mess...We are so proud. although he is still pooping when we leave but he does do it on the wee wee pads (O.k so he misses). I tried walking out of the house and coming in after about 1min. I hope this is a step forward. He did love that bone though, he even went into the bedroom alone to chew on it. He always used to stay in whatever room we were in and this morning before I left for work he was playing with his ball.

[gbroxon]

Keep up the good work! It may take awhile, but it sounds like you're off to a good start!

[luzmery928]

one day at a time but at least today started out good

[jys1011]

YAY you go little B :D :D :D

[luzmery928]

Yes well like I said one day at at time because yesturday was a different story. My daughter came home from school and as usual he had peeped and pooped but on the wee wee pads, no big deal we are used to that. But then he started nipping my daughter pretty hard, she almost cried so she went into her room. When I got home this little brat had pooped in the living room and peeded in the hallway right in front of my daughter's room. AGHHHHH!!!! I was so upset. Anyway I took Champ to the park and met up with some owners and I wanted to get input on the crate thing. See the thing is that we like Champ to walk around the house sit with us on the couch and sleep in his bed next to us and this seems to have to change if we start crate training him. I just want him to stop pooping and peeing inside the house. He only does this when he's alone. He hasn't had any accidents while we are home for a few days. My other concern is the nipping. I swear we have tried all your suggestions, but nothing works. Wait the walking worked because after we came back from our 1 1/2 hour park trip he was such a little angel. Anyway I got the crate suggestion but was told he had to sleep in there which I don't like (will he?)and then I was told to punish when he did his messes by rubing his nose on the pee and then isolated him from the family. This used to work with my toy poodle, but he was pretty much trained and not so hyper. The trainer is coming this Sat. so I'm sure he will help with the nipping and he already mentioned the crate...I need some feedback please my mind is running in circles with this whole crate, potty business.

[jys1011]

punish when he did his messes by rubing his nose on the pee and then isolated him from the family. This used to work with my toy poodle, but he was pretty much trained and not so hyper.

I'm not sure who shared this information with you but IMO it's terribly wrong & may actually make things worse. This will scare the little guy & somtimes the smells stays on their nose if done harshly & they'll pee ALLLLL over the place :eek: I'm sure you don't want that. Try to get into the mind set that dogs will want to do things that make him feel good. If I don't nip...I get a FABULOUS treat :) If I don't pee I get such wonderful praises AND a FABULOUS treat.

With the nipping try what they call "replacing the behavior" so when he starts to nip give him something to do IMMEDIATELY (and timing is everything with this exercise) that he can't possibly nip & do the new behavior at the same time...for example..Step 1-nips=chew toy IMMEDIATELY Step 2-if he gets distracted with the chew toy then you treat him with some yummy food & good praises!! Using a nice happy voice!!

Andrea once used this analogy that has stuck with me....if they had a law that all those that DON'T speed get a new car :D wouldn't you NOT speed :) well same idea with dogs.

With the peeing around the house you may need to keep the little guy on a leash meaning with you at ALLLL times. Tie the leash around your waist so you can watch his every move...if starts looking like he's going to pee (and you MUST watch & learn the signs because there aremany) you pick him up quickly saying "Potty Potty Potty" and take him outside or wherever you want him to pee. If you can't keep an eye on him then he belongs in his crate with the most delicious treat possible or a fun chew toy!

I can't emphasize enough that you need to do these exercises every single time every single day...it does work but the commitment needs to be there.

We have some issues with other dogs & I've been teaching "Watch" to my dogs for what seems like forever!!! :eek: and it's taken them about 3 months to figure it out...but it's every day & the precise time.

[luzmery928]

Can I potty train him with the crate when we are not home but give him free use of the house when we are, including letting him sleep during the night out of his crate? This is the only reason y we have not crated him. O.k about the nipping thing, we are all going to have to strap ourselves like cowboys to a chewing toy and maybe a squirt water bottle for back up.

[spitfirekrl1]

I don't know about crate/potty training but our B is only in the crate when we are away. She sleeps with us durring the night. Does your B pee or poop in the house at night? If not, I wouldn't think that you would need to crate to help with potty training at night.

[luzmery928]

No, Champ only does this when we are not home. During the night he sleeps straight through. He pretty much just has this issue when he is left home alone or when for example we are in the bathroom or my daughter is in her room and he is not allowed in.

[jys1011]

You should try the advice that some gave on this thread to potty train while you're out of the house. You can fence him in an area so that he doesn't pee all over the house but is in a confined space where he also has his crate & some wee pads that he can use to go when he needs to.

http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=1119

Also check out the thread discussions in the Training Section of the forum. There's lots of good advice there about potty training AND lots of info about crates & why it's a good idea.

My dogs are adults and we crate them any time we can not supervise them. And they get crated at night to sleep. They are den animals & I assure you they do like a safe confined space that they can go to feel "safe" and also just a place they can rest in.

[luzmery928]

Thanks everyone is alsways offering such wonderful information and it's great to hear that they are den animals and he might feel even better ebing in a crate. That will definetly help me sleep at night. Hopefully after some adjustments are made during the weekend I will come back with some good news. I know it takes time and I will be patient with my B.

[Quercus]

Can I potty train him with the crate when we are not home but give him free use of the house when we are, including letting him sleep during the night out of his crate? This is the only reason y we have not crated him. O.k about the nipping thing, we are all going to have to strap ourselves like cowboys to a chewing toy and maybe a squirt water bottle for back up.

You can do whatever you want with him, as long as you can keep your eye on him every single second. During the day, you make it so he can't leave the room you are in...or tether him to you....while you are sleeping, you are unlikely to be able to watch him, so I would crate him. The only exception to that, imo, is if he is sleeping in your bed, and you wake up when he starts to move around. That is how we night trained several of our dogs. As soon as the puppy starts moving around, we take them outside.

We have a puppy right now too...so I totally understand what you are going thru. But I know if I walk away from the puppy, I will most likely find a puddle when I come back. I clean it up, and go on....I know if I leave her in her crate for more than three hours, I will be cleaning up pee, and probably poop. I put newspaper on the floor of the crate, and an absorbent blanket, and be prepared to clean when I come back. The responsiblity is all on ME to set her up for success...if I can't do that, then I take responsiblity for not actually training her.

For the biting, try standing up and leaving the play when it gets too rough. Usually our puppy bites when she is either on my lap, or if we are holding her..I immediately put her down (unless she is struggling to *get down, and that is a different story). Game over. You can also try spraying your hands and arms with Bitter Apple. That is the only thing that worked when Querk was a puppy.

House training sometimes takes a long time. You KNOW that he will poop when somebody walks away (separates themselves) from him.... so set him up so that can't happen. If your daughter needs a break from him, put him in the crate, and she goes off to her room. Give him something fun do in there, so it isn't a puninshment. Or she says 'mom, watch the puppy, I can't deal with him right now'.

You were meeting with a trainer, right? Has that happened yet? Hopefully he or she will have some good ideas for you.

[Quercus]

With the nipping try what they call "replacing the behavior" so when he starts to nip give him something to do IMMEDIATELY (and timing is everything with this exercise) that he can't possibly nip & do the new behavior at the same time...for example..Step 1-nips=chew toy IMMEDIATELY Step 2-if he gets distracted with the chew toy then you treat him with some yummy food & good praises!! Using a nice happy voice!!

Andrea once used this analogy that has stuck with me....if they had a law that all those that DON'T speed get a new car :D wouldn't you NOT speed :) well same idea with dogs.

.

Great advice about the nipping...and I am glad you liked my speeding analogy :)

[luzmery928]

Yeah the trainer is coming this weekend. During the night is not a problem, when he sees we are going to bed he goes to bed too and does't wakw up before 5...We walk away when he nips but believe it or not he kind of likes it, it's like he's playing catch and nip. He does behave when we take him for a long walk so I do believe it's just alot of energy. I started telling my daughter that she needs to spend more time with him by playing with him. I do think he might nip at her the most because she's dosen't spend that much time with him. He is persistant and wow his nips can hurt. I tried ignoring him yesturday but when he starts nothing stops him, well he dosen't like the spray bottle to I think we're gonna get more persistant with that.

[Quercus]

The spray bottle may wind him up more. Try the Bitter Apple on your hands. we have found that sometimes when the puppy is too tired (yes, it can happen) they are more mouthy. Sometimes just putting the puppy in the crate for a nap works wonders!

[luzmery928]

is that like the spray on scents or do I get this at a pet store?

[alkite]

It is available at pet stores and is a chewing deterrent formulated for pets so it is nasty but non-toxic. I've heard of some dogs that aren't phased by it, but my B gives me dirty looks when I open the cabinet the bitter apple is in :D

[jys1011]

Andrea..hey if I ask for advice I absolutely take it to heart :) especally the good stuff :D :D

Thanks for the compliment..I've been doing quite a bit of reading! And practicing!!

[luzmery928]

O.k here's the update on the trainer..Well he's not really a trainer but knows alot about dogs. (he was referred to us by the rescue agency) Anyway he thinks Champ is unusually imature for his age and feels the excessive nipping and the nipping in his favorite area-bobbies, is due to him maybe being seperated from his mom too early. He wants us to crate train him but he says to put him in the crate with no toys, blankets bed or anything. (This I find very harsh). Also he says we should keep him crated when pple come over the house. (I'm not happy about that either). That' sll for the potty training. Now for the nipping, he suggests a citruis collar. It is like a shock collar but instead of shocking, it realeases a strong smell that the gods dont' like.
O.k I was unable to sleep last night just thinking of these methods and would really like some feedback concerning these trainng methods. I don't want to do the wrong thing and cause any probelems for our B

[dmcarty]

Hmmmm - lots of times you have nipping puppies because they were removed from mom too early and she would have corrected that kind of behavior. So what would mom do if she were nipped by her puppy.

Growl at puppy and probably mouth the puppies head. Now I'm not recommending biting your dogs head but a firm hand on the head with a growly noise from whomever is getting nibbled on is probaly a good idea.

I always recommend keeping a dog especially puppy crated or away when lots of people come over for a variety of reasons:

1 - if they don't close the door quick enough the pup could be gone.
2 - not everyone is a dog person and may have different expectations of what a dog should be doing and correct the dog in a different way that would be appropriate.
3 - too much stress

[luzmery928]

yeah that sounds right, now what about being left in the crate without any toys, bed, blankets, etc?

[gbroxon]

I've only heard of citrus collars that are used to control barking; the barking sets off the shot of citrus. Are there ones that can be remote-controlled? In other words, how does the nipping set off the citrus blast?

I'm not sure of his reasoning in leaving the pup in a bare crate. Did he explain why he thought it was a good idea?

[luzmery928]

No. I will ask him but I'm not sure a bare crate will help. How will he want to be inside if I don't keep him comfortable. The collar is remote control

[Quercus]

I would say that if you aren't comfortable with the advice the trainer gave you, then find another trainer.

My guess is that he suggested a bare crate because if the dog urinates in it, he will have to sit in it. Personally, I don't crate train that way. My experience has been that for a while, some puppies urinate in their crate...eventually they grow out of it. But I am very tolerant for cleaning up puppy pee and poo :) I do line the crate with newspaper so it absorbs any liquid...but the important part is that a puppy really should be taken outside at most every couple of hours to become housetrained...if you don't or can't do that, it will take longer to house train a dog.

As far as citronella collar for nipping...I don't think it would be effective. I think it is far more effective to disengage with the puppy..it sends and immediate message of "I won't play with you when you put your mouth on me". If it is true puppy mouthing, it will get better as the puppy grows up. If it is some bratty temper tantruming, then if you don't deal with it, it will get worse.

You really need to find a good, positive reinforcement trainer...I think that will help you. Somewhere, maybe this thread? there is a link to the American Pet Dog Trainer website, most of the people listed there are well educated in positive training techniques. For even more certification, look for a trainer with the CPDT (Certified Professional Dog Trainer) title. You can also google CCPDT, and find a listing of these trainers there.

[tanza]

I agree totally with Andrea.... her suggestions are right on... IMO

[luzmery928]

yeah I have my doubts about the trainer because well he isn't even a real trainer just "knows alot about dogs", and he didn't mention anything about positive reinforcement but he is affordable and can sort of guide us towards something. The thing is that Champ is already 1 year old and we have tried all the suggestions about his mouthing and he just dosen't stop, although the spray bottle does seem to help for a while. I am going to call the guy today and speak to him about my concerns and see if he's willing to work with our ideas and if not then we'll just be hitting this forum alot more often

[jys1011]

I ditto Andrea...I think there's a HUGE difference between people "know" & "love" dogs & have "had dogs" all their life giving advice vs. someone who is a "trained" professional. One who is familiar with behavior & reactions of a wide range of dogs not just the one's they've owned.

I had to go through a couple of trainers to really find one that I liked & was comfortable with. I also READ A LOT of books to find what I thought was best for my dogs. Check out the www.dogwise.com website. They have lots of great books there. I can recommend an author...Patricia Mcconnell who is not a trainer but an animal behaviorist. She's written great books & I believe she also has one on puppy training.

IMO I also think it takes time for dogs to "unlearn" a behavior. According to your posts you've only been working on his nipping for maybe a week or two. Unfortunately it's going to take a lot longer for Champ to learn what you want him to do.

Good luck

[luzmery928]

We have actually been working with our B for about 1 month. We've only had him for almost 2 months. I know it takes time and we are giving it time but I would have at least expected the last month to have shown some improvement on his nipping. Thanks for the resource I am in the process of receiving the B hand book that was also recommended by a forum member and will look up your recomeendation. Maybe with the crate Champ will also learn some more control over all not only with the potty.

[luzmery928]

I also wanted to start Champ in the basic training offered by petsmart but was wondering if I should wait until we work on the nipping and potty first or we can do it at the same time

[Quercus]

I didn't realize that Champ is a year old. That definitely is older than the average age for seeing these kind of problems. Usually play biting runs its course by the age of 6-8 mos or so...after that if you are still seeing a lot of biting, the dog has often learned to use his mouth to get what he wants.

It is really hard to diagnose, and give good suggestions over the internet. But I would seriously, seriously look into finding a good trainer or behaviorist. I am concerned that what you are describing as play biting, or nipping might actually be aggression. It might be more expensive than the guy who you contacted, but it could very well be worth it to you and this dog in the long run.

[luzmery928]

Well I really don't think it's agressive (I'm not an expert though) but what the guy said was that he is unusually immature for his age and he was probably taken from his mom too early so no mommie to teach him the basics of nipping. I do believe this is like as if he was still a pup and in that nipping stage. He dosen't growl, show he's teeth or close his jaw when he's nipping. Well now the guy offered to come to my home to help and at no cost so we'll give it a try. We only started with the water spray this weekend and will also buy the bitter apple and see how that goes. I'm definetly going to start crating him this weekend (yes I caved in but now I realize it is best for us all).

[Quercus]

What is he doing, and what are you (or whoever he is interacting with) doing when he is biting? For instance, are you just petting him, and he starts, or are you playing with him with your hands, then he starts, or are you trying to keep him from doing something, or taking away something he has snatched?

[luzmery928]

Let me give you the run down...When my daughter comes home he jumps at her and nipps her anywhere...If she plays, he'll play nice but might start nipping if he gets really excited..he'll jump up and nip. When we pet him, he dosen't usually nip but might start licking then he'll start the nipping. If someone new comes into the house he'll jump up and nip. But he dosen't nip if lets say we take away a toy, carry him, nothing that to my experience would fall under the aggressive category. Even if we pull something away from him, he won't nip at us per say but will kind of nip to just play

[Quercus]

Yep sounds like inappropriate play. Definitely try the Bitter Apple spray on your arms. And I *would put him in his crate for five minutes or so when he gets wound up like that. Give him a stuffed bone, or kong, anything that entertains him. It is more like a time out, than a punishment. It helps the dog calm down.

Another thing that helps is find a way to interact with him in a constructive way (like clicker training) and then engage him in that BEFORE he starts to nip. He nips because he wants your attention. If you give him your attention while playing by YOUR rules, you will both win :)

I would definitely sign him up for some classes ASAP...try to find one that uses treat training, as I doubt you would be able to engage this type of dog with any other type of training. You will both enjoy it, and I think it will help him focus.

[luzmery928]

Well I had mentioned to the guy who is gonna help us out with Champ that I wanted to take him to basic training at petsmart but he said different training might confuse Champ...Is this true?

[Quercus]

Well.....if the training theories are REALLY different, then maybe...but more likely it would confuse you :) The trainers at PetSmart have to go through at least SOME training, whereas the guy you are talking about may not have. It doesn't sound like this guy's techniques are so out there that you wouldn't be able to use exercises from both places and take what you like, and leave what you don't.

Does this guy use treats to train?

[luzmery928]

He only came once and didn't do much training but play and admire Champ. Yeah I know what are we paying for. But now he's gonna do this, no fee, and will show us about crate training, walking and using the citrus collar for the nipping. We will see more this Sun. when the introduction has now been done and the real "trianing" can begin.

[Quercus]

Weellll.....you get what you pay for ;) Honestly, don't let him do anything to your dog that you are uncomfortable with. Anyone can call themselves a dog trainer, and sometimes owners are too embarrassed to say 'stop doing that to my dog'. But you have to be your dog's advocate, and protector. Some training methods can, and do make behaviors worse that people were trying to fix.

[Duke]

Let me give you the run down...When my daughter comes home he jumps at her and nipps her anywhere...If she plays, he'll play nice but might start nipping if he gets really excited..he'll jump up and nip. When we pet him, he dosen't usually nip but might start licking then he'll start the nipping. If someone new comes into the house he'll jump up and nip. But he dosen't nip if lets say we take away a toy, carry him, nothing that to my experience would fall under the aggressive category. Even if we pull something away from him, he won't nip at us per say but will kind of nip to just play
Well here's my 2 cents and mind you I'm not a professional trainer either. The behavior Champ is having with your daughter sounds like the exact same "crap" my Duke would do to my son (8 yrs old) last year. This forum wasn't around when I was going thru this. But here's what I did, based on advice I got from Jean Skaggs. She really knows Basenji behavior. I told my son to just get up and walk away slowly. No eye contact, no verbage, no interaction or even a reprimand. Otherwise, the basenji is being rewarded with even negative attention. If they get nothing for bad behavior, they get no attention-reward, and stop the behavior. Only desireable behavior should get them attention-reward. He's been in tears over this and I didn't like to see my boy mad and frustrated. I've had to remind-remind-remind my son of how to handle Duke's crazy behavior. I've even had to teach his visiting friends.

You might want to follow some nipping advice I got from Ms. Skaggs that is listed on the Basenji Companion link: http://basenjicompanions.org/tips/aggression/nipping.html
Jean's approach for nipping worked like a charm for us. Everyone had to be on deck for this to work.

Good luck with this one.

[luzmery928]

Weellll.....you get what you pay for ;) Honestly, don't let him do anything to your dog that you are uncomfortable with. Anyone can call themselves a dog trainer, and sometimes owners are too embarrassed to say 'stop doing that to my dog'. But you have to be your dog's advocate, and protector. Some training methods can, and do make behaviors worse that people were trying to fix.

Oh no, you better believe noone will be doing anything that we are not comfortable with. We will be present throughout his entire training/playday (I think the guy is doing this more for his own entertainment/research). We'll give him a trial basis since he can help with some details we might be over looking. But no Champ is our priority and we won't be embarresed if it means the best for our B

[nomrbddgs]

Oh no, you better believe noone will be doing anything that we are not comfortable with. We will be present throughout his entire training/playday (I think the guy is doing this more for his own entertainment/research). We'll give him a trial basis since he can help with some details we might be over looking. But no Champ is our priority and we won't be embarresed if it means the best for our B


Just have to say, if you're not comfortable with him from the outset, don't give him a test drive. You could end up with a more messed up dog than you started with. There are lots and lots of good trainers out there-go with someone you're comfortable with.

[luzmery928]

Thanks Duke for this respond since I have not read threads concerning older kids and B's. I am definetly going to check that link out. My daughter is so frustrated by his behavior. We were trying to figure out y he is this way with her and thought maybe it had to do with the fact that she did not spend alot of time with him and he wanted to play nut yeaturday when she came home from school it was unbearable for her so she had to go in her room and well he peeded and pooped because he was left alone. So then I thought maybe it's because he thinks he's her owner since we play and cuddle with him and she is often doing her own thing (teenagers) so last night we all layed in bed together and he was left on the floor. Eventually he was allowed on the bed and they played for a while, he tried the nipping but eventually gave up and layed doen right on her chest. Oh by the way our little Champ no longer responds to the water bottle. He has realized it is just water and can be licked off so now HE LIKES IT!!!AGHHHH...tonight I'm stopping at a pet store for some bitter apple.

[luzmery928]

Just have to say, if you're not comfortable with him from the outset, don't give him a test drive. You could end up with a more messed up dog than you started with. There are lots and lots of good trainers out there-go with someone you're comfortable with.


Believe me I lost sleep because of this and my thought were no I don't want to use him. Although this is also due the fact that I was against crating (He will be bringing a crate with him) but my husband seemed to like him and he was recommended through the rescue so we'll wait and see. I would like to think that I know my B by now so I'll definelty be looking for any signs he might not be comfortable as well. Thanks for your concern and I will be sure to stop anything before it gets to the point of causing any negative response from my B and from us.

[nomrbddgs]

Crate's are fine,try not to be too uptight. (If they're crate trained properly) The trainer should be putting something in the crate to distract him when he's in there. (maybe a kong toy with a little bit of peanut butter stuck way up inside. This works as distraction for most dogs but not all. If he has severe anxiety this probably will not work.) If the trainer just throws him in there without trying distraction-get rid of him-he's not there to help your dog. Just to let you know, most dogs will eventually think of the crate as a den. (I say most because even though I am a trainer and a behaviourist my female B still poops in her crate and then disposes of it. She hates the crate!! That's does not mean she is not crated when I need her to be. She is crated when we travel, at dog shows, and in hotel rooms for the most part. I don't let her get her way all the time!)

[Duke]

Thanks Duke for this respond since I have not read threads concerning older kids and B's. I am definetly going to check that link out. My daughter is so frustrated by his behavior. We were trying to figure out y he is this way with her and thought maybe it had to do with the fact that she did not spend alot of time with him and he wanted to play nut yeaturday when she came home from school it was unbearable for her so she had to go in her room and well he peeded and pooped because he was left alone. So then I thought maybe it's because he thinks he's her owner since we play and cuddle with him and she is often doing her own thing (teenagers) so last night we all layed in bed together and he was left on the floor. Eventually he was allowed on the bed and they played for a while, he tried the nipping but eventually gave up and layed doen right on her chest. Oh by the way our little Champ no longer responds to the water bottle. He has realized it is just water and can be licked off so now HE LIKES IT!!!AGHHHH...tonight I'm stopping at a pet store for some bitter apple.

If the scenario with your daughter is similar as it was with my son - it is likely because he gets attention from her. (even negative attention = reward to basenji) My guess is she responds to his behavior like my son did possibly with pushing and anger with words and eye contact?? Basenji thinks "If I nip, I get attention." (reward). If your daughter paid no attention when Champ nips, say she comes home, hangs up coat and sits at kitchen table with her books and ignores Champ. Champ goes away. Give him a few minutes of being good leaving her alone, then ask her to give Champ a nice hello and pet. If he nips again - same routine, no attention. I had to remind my son repeatedly to do this routine because his first instinct to being nipped is to retaliate with aggression. There are many training tips on the Basenji Companions website.

[luzmery928]

Yeah well Champ dosen't give up. She's done the ignoring but he dosen't stop. Only option is to go in her room. I mean he'll even start taking her books if she's doing homework. Maybe a baby gate will help in this case since he can't get to her but still see her. We can use it as a time out.

[luzmery928]

Nomrbddgs...yes I completly agree about the toys, distraction, in the crate. This is something I am going to discuss with the guy when he comes Sun. I'm not gonna allow for him to tell me what to do only on his terms. We will work together. I have finally come to accept the crain..well at least enough to work with it and am glad to know that not all dogs like them and this is o.k. I just keep telling myself it is good for us all and hey I'm sure my daughter dosen't like all our rules but we do what's best.

[spitfirekrl1]

Does anyone reading these strands think that this might be a dominant behavior? Like Champ is trying to win dominance over the daughter? Our B did this with my son (who is 7) for a while until we practiced some things that teaches the dog is not the dominant one over ANY human in our house. It almost sounds like the same scenario.

[spitfirekrl1]

Along with no-bite methods, of course. Which we just held her snout firmly and told her no bite and stopped play which worked for us.

[luzmery928]

yes I believe it's also a dominance behavior with him (I don't like that word it seems ike he's being aggresive) but anyway I also held held snout when he did this (also hard to do-that B is quick)and he tested me again and I did it again except this time he let out a yelp but I don't think I hurt it at least I hope I didn't. Two yelps and he stopped the nipping. But see we are not playing with him so we ignore but he keeps it up. Is my B the only one with sharp teeth, cause these nips hurt and because they hurt it's nearly impossible to ignore.

[Duke]

Well, if the water bottle doesn't work anymore, how about coins taped inside a tin can that you throw down on the floor. It is supposed to startle them and change thinking direction. Otherwise, somewhere in this forum was a suggestion to use those caps that you buy at carnivals, especially if you don't want to keep getting up. You just throw them on the floor and they make a loud pop sound. Sorry luzmery928, I'm all out of ideas. Please don't try an idea and give up too quickly - choose one that seems workable from the start and stick with it for atleast week. Also, get bossy ;) and make everyone in the house follow your rule on it. Good luck!

[luzmery928]

thanks. Well I'm now moving on to the bitter apple and that can idea sounds good. I will update.

[Quercus]

I want to make sure you understand you don't spray the bitter apple at the dog...you put it on whatever the dog is trying to chew on :)

And just to be perfectly clear...ignoring the behavior means silently GET UP, leave the puppy. If you just stay where you are, yes, he will continue to bite.

And, no you aren't the only one whose puppy teeth hurt like heck. My husband just got bit on the nose because he decided to cuddle an excited puppy next to his face??? why...I don't know!

[luzmery928]

Well thanks for telling me that cause I thought the bitter apple was used like the water spray. (Noone worry I would have read the instructions before use). Well them I guess I better buy the family size so we can bathe in the stuff. I do think the gate will work well with the nipping so we can get up and seclude him from us, like a time out.

[Quercus]

Along with no-bite methods, of course. Which we just held her snout firmly and told her no bite and stopped play which worked for us.

A lot of people recommend this...but in the case of my worst play biter, it just made him more wound up. But for some dogs, that is all the correction they need. I have found that with most people if they are complaining about play biting, they have one of these over the top, play biting maniacs like my first Basenji was.

[Duke]

I have found that with most people if they are complaining about play biting, they have one of these over the top, play biting maniacs like my first Basenji was.
You are describing Duke! :eek: He just kept getting more, and more wound up when I tried to closing his muzzle - it made his/my problem worse. All the screaming "NO BITE!!" and muzzle holding for nothing - It just made me mad!! :mad: At my wits end, the passive aggressive approach worked best. :) Glad he finally has some respect for us now - :rolleyes:

[luzmery928]

Yeah and it can be tricky since if I don't grab it right I end up jabbing my finger tips straight into his pointy teeth..ouch for me. But I don't want to hurt him either and last night he did yelp twice so I'm not sure if it hurt him. As soon as he yelped, I let go and he opened his mouth and took out his tongue. I looked to make sure he didn't bite it.

[jys1011]

My husband just got bit on the nose because he decided to cuddle an excited puppy next to his face??? why...I don't know!

LOL LOL...I bet he learned his lesson :D

[Quercus]

LOL LOL...I bet he learned his lesson :D


No, I bet he didn't ;) He is my MOST resistant student!

[Duke]

No, I bet he didn't ;) He is my MOST resistant student!
:D Too funny Andrea! I also have one of those students and I "understand" the resistant type - LOL! Parachute collapse. :D

[Quercus]

:D Too funny Andrea! I also have one of those students and I "understand" the resistant type - LOL! Parachute collapse. :D

Ha, ha! :D

[jys1011]

Double ditto...I put up the dog rules on a bulletin board but ALAS he just doesn't GET IT :mad:

ie-use the same command dear...use a watch exercise when you see a dog coming your way...do a uturn if the dog is too close to do a watch exercise. Praise for going potty...NADA :D

Does anyone know of HUSBAND TRAINING classes at Pet Smart :D :D

[youngandtired]

I think it is a man thing, I don't need to listen to you, I'll do what I want with our dog. I am trying to stop Sahara from play biteing when she wants our attention. She will try to bite your hand, or feet when you are trying to go to work. She knows when we are going, she is so smart. So, I get up when she does the bad behavior, say no bite, and ignore. Well, she is getting the picture, she hardly bites me anymore, but she still does my hubby. I tell him what to do and he just yells, "Stop Biteing", that drives me crazy. He just refuses to do what I tell him, he uses the wrong commands, not words she knows. I need to sign him up!!!!

[luzmery928]

Just looking over my threads and decided to post this one as a SUCCESS since my dog nolonger poops when left out of another room and he is potty trained. Now that I look back at that period, not too long agao and remember how nuts he had me over that pooping issue, now I laugh cause it's done and we were able to move beyond it. Next step, still working on the nipping....One day at a time.

[gbroxon]

You go, Girl! :)

[Quercus]

Whoo hooo! Progress....slow, but sure :)