Corky is Turning Trindle

[tasha]

Is this normal? Corky's black body is turning brindle. Has anyone else seen this in their tris? I'm not upset over it at all. He's still my sweet lovable boy no matter what color he is. I'm just curious if this happens a lot. Thanks!

[tanza]

I would bet that he is just blowing coat... they don't just turn brindle...?..

[jys1011]

I think Pat's right. My boy starting changing colors (at least I thought so :eek: ha) I thought his coat was getting lighter & he's a brindle. Turns out his normal coat grew back in just fine. :D

[Mantis]

how old are they?

[tanza]

The color they are born are the color they stay... if born a Trindle you would have known it at a week old... same with a Tri and a Brindle, and while the strips on a Brindle may look "lighter" or "darker" depending on the time of year, what they are, is what they are.....

[tasha]

Sorry, I have to disagree with the masses here. I know what color he was when we got him at 8 weeks. His black was solid up until a few months ago. Even the black on his head from the crook of his nose up to his ears has brown mixed in with it now. Yes, he is blowing his coat and that seems to have made it more pronounced but, his brown is creeping into his black. There's no doubt abut it.

[Mantis]

well my guess is the brown you are seeing is red mixed with the black.cairo who is a brindle is red and black which appears like a chocolate brown all over.

do you know of any brindle basenjis in your basenji's family tree? it isnt impossible if it is what you think it is.

caesar is red, but his mom is red and his dad was tri. he was born with black hair on his back, shoulder blades and the back of his tail (that he still has and is pretty common) and longer black hair on the back of his ears. you cant see it anymore, but he did show tri characteristics in the beginning that faded away.

here is what i have seen with the brindles and the strange coloring. if there is brindle in the family tree you may see a trindle which is a tri and all places red will be brindle instead of red. cairo had 2 out of 7 pups in his litter that were trindle.

It seems to be that Cairo's coat at 6months appears to be brighter and his red shows a bit more now than when he was a wee pup.

can you post a picture? is the brindle coloring on the spine or shoulder blades?

[tanza]

And the "brindle" markings would show on the face.... also you need to wait until he is done blowing coat to see the true color... again, he might have always been a "trindle" and maybe you didn't notice it as a baby puppy....because they do NOT change colors.... A Tri doesn't become "Trindle" they are born that way or not....

[Mantis]

and, some brindles almost have that greyhound coloring where it is all light and a tiny bit of strip....

I am on the opposite spectrum from that but i have seen brindles that are very red dominant....

I would love to see a picture!

[Mantis]

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/7/7c/Congo1.jpg

here is a pic I found online of a trindle

[Mantis]

http://www.puppyfind.com/view_photo/?breed_id=13&list_id=l3592dh0ud&img_id=9n76636s1w&back=%2Fbreed%2F%3Fbreed_id%3D13%26back%3D

[tanza]

http://www.puppyfind.com/view_photo/?breed_id=13&list_id=l3592dh0ud&img_id=9n76636s1w&back=%2Fbreed%2F%3Fbreed_id%3D13%26back%3D

Yup, that would be a Trindle

[tasha]

And the "brindle" markings would show on the face.... also you need to wait until he is done blowing coat to see the true color... again, he might have always been a "trindle" and maybe you didn't notice it as a baby puppy....because they do NOT change colors.... A Tri doesn't become "Trindle" they are born that way or not....

I'm confused because he's three years old and all of a sudden he's showing the red hairs in what was solid black but yet he was born that way. :confused: We absolutely love our dogs. I inspect my dogs almost daily for 'stickies' from the yard or anything else that can stick to their coats. Between my husband and I each dog gets some kind of special attention every day. My two boys get brushed at least once a week. (My little girl gets groomed.) I know what he looked like up until a few months ago. And so does my husband. He exclaimed at one point "Corky is not as black as he used to be."

Could you take a look at the pictures of him in my member gallary (most of which are puppy pics or over a year old) and tell me if he looks trindle to you and maybe now it's becoming more pronounced?

I will try to get pictures of him in the next couple of days.

Thanks!!!

As far as his brothers and sisters, I have no clue because Corky is a pet shop pup. No, I'm not proud of that but I am not sorry for it either. I am making a difference now. I am the foster and transport coorinator for a local rescue and I also foster small puppies. Along with that, I try to gently educate people about pet shops and puppy mills.

Also, just for the record, because Corky is a pet shop pup, he gets tested for Fanconi every 6 months. So far so good!!!

[tanza]

FYI, regardless of Pet Shop or not, Strip testing for Fanconi testing should be done monthly over the age of 2?

I will look at the pictures...

[tasha]

FYI, regardless of Pet Shop or not, Strip testing for Fanconi testing should be done monthly over the age of 2?

I will look at the pictures...

My vet recommends every 6 months.

[tanza]

My vet recommends every 6 months.

Sorry, this is going to sound nasty, your Vet is wrong. Strip testing the urine should be done each and every month. By the test strips, it is not something that needs to be done by the Vet... Believe me "if" he were to develope Fanconi, the best action is to catch it as early as possible.

[tanza]

In regards to his color, I looked at the pictures and I do not see that he is even close to a Trindle... I still say you need to wait till he is completely done blowing coat. They get an undercoat and it will change the color... Many times the reds when blowing coat will change to a "straw color"... and blacks sometimes with get a funky undercoat even giving them a red "hint of color".... Once again, they do not at 3 changed into a trindle... or brindle for the matter

[tanza]

I am not trying to "be" the know it all" and/or talk down to people... however in the case of Fanconi, I will do what I need to so that people understand the important of stipping your Basenjis every single month.. and not all Vets are correct... this is not directed at one person but everyone on this list... including long time breeders that sometimes "forget" to strip every month.

If you go to the Basenji Club of America website and read about Fanconi you will see that Dr Gonto who developed the protocol say, "strip every month".. many Vets to this day, discount his research and protocol. All Vets are not always right.

[nomrbddgs]

I have to agree with Pat. Testing should be done each and every month with strip testing the urine-not that hard to do at home. Also the onlly time the "change" to a trindle is when they are 0-5 wks. Then you start to see the colours come out. Shadow used to be pitch black-now that he looks like a Shiba Inu he is a brownish-black. Undercoats do change their hue and they will look different when blowing a coat. But they don't morph into another colour of baseni. I looked at your pics also and they are definitely tri-not trindle.

[tanza]

In regards to his color, I looked at the pictures and I do not see that he is even close to a Trindle... I still say you need to wait till he is completely done blowing coat. They get an undercoat and it will change the color... Many times the reds when blowing coat will change to a "straw color"... and blacks sometimes with get a funky undercoat even giving them a red "hint of color".... Once again, they do not at 3 changed into a trindle... or brindle for the matter

And just to clear up.. I am not saying that people (or Corky's Mom/Dad) do not look at their dogs every day.. I am just trying to say they do not change from being a base colored Tri to a Trindle as adults, or Red to Brindle... those are the colors they are born with, of course they change bunches with age and blowing coat, like getting grey, reds (deep reds too) getting all straw colored for over 2 months when blowing coat...

[Mantis]

have you changed your basenji diet? sometimes different foods will change the appearance in his coat or texture?

again, is the red hair only on the spine? or all over the back? is it even or is it just in one spot? is it on the back of the ears?

i will check out your pics in just a minute.

take a look at cairo and how dark he is compared to most brindles, does the hair resemble him in anyway?

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/SheMantis/cairoa.jpg

[Mantis]

well I looked at your pics and he does look like a tri. if he has reds in him, well just consider it a special trait.

I think that it is great that you are noticing changes in Corky and it is clear that you pay attention to detail. I do the same, and consider myself a bit of an extremist about my boys.

There is no reason to read tense text here and I am sure things read harsher than intended, but can we stay on topic.

Although Fanconi is important to be aware of, I dont think it does anything to Corky's coat of many colors, LOL.:D

Pics would be great!! I have done some searches on this site about colors of basenjis and there are a lot of colors that are not AKC approved and documented. It is pretty interesting stuff.....

Has the weather changed in your area? Do you think it is blowing a coat? My red does that and blows reddishblonde hair which is weird....but it seems to be lighter than his regular coat when summer comes.

[tasha]

Thanks Mantis!!! Acutally I have changed his food. I gradually transitioned him and his brother from Purina One to Evo. I must say that his brother's coat is also changing. He's becoming more white than blonde. Oh, Buddy's mom was dalmation/beagle and his dad was min pin/terrier they think. I've noticed that both of them are shedding much more than they did last year. Maybe these are their new summer colors. :D

[YodelDogs]

Tasha,
It is possible that Corky's color change may simply be due to coat changes or nutritional issues but when I looked at the pic of Corky standing up, something else occurred to me. There are two kinds of tri in Basenjis, "clear" and "fula". In simple terms, clear tris have clear demarcation between the three colors while "fula" has a tendency to "bleed" or "blend" the black and red areas. Corky's face definately looks like a "clear" but the "bleeding", or mixing of tan and black on the back of the legs and breeches, may indicate the presence of the "fula" gene. "Fula" is simply a color variation and there is nothing "wrong" with it. It is not connected to brindle.

lvoss, tanza, quercus...comments or thoughts?

[tasha]

Tasha,
It is possible that Corky's color change may simply be due to coat changes or nutritional issues but when I looked at the pic of Corky standing up, something else occurred to me. There are two kinds of tri in Basenjis, "clear" and "fula". In simple terms, clear tris have clear demarcation between the three colors while "fula" has a tendency to "bleed" or "blend" the black and red areas. Corky's face definately looks like a "clear" but the "bleeding", or mixing of tan and black on the back of the legs and breeches, may indicate the presence of the "fula" gene. "Fula" is simply a color variation and there is nothing "wrong" with it. It is not connected to brindle.

lvoss, tanza, quercus...comments or thoughts?

Thanks Yodel!!!
That is awesome information and makes total sense because I knew there was something different about the blending of colors on his legs. I didn't think it was trindle but I wasn't sure if there was a name for it.

[Mantis]

interesting!

When I changed my guys from Natural Balance to EVO I noticed that Caesar (red)'s coat became extremely thick. He has never been a shiny dog, but his color seemed more intense and his fur felt great!

[tasha]

interesting!

When I changed my guys from Natural Balance to EVO I noticed that Caesar (red)'s coat became extremely thick. He has never been a shiny dog, but his color seemed more intense and his fur felt great!

That rings true with us too. The boys are softer, smoother and shinier than ever. I love it!!! They are also sleeker in build which makes them look so hansom. :)

[Quercus]

I haven't looked at the pics yet, but yes, my first thought was bleeding of colors. Lots, and lots of tris have color bleeding, particularly around the legs...and to a lesser amount in the face. It seems to increase with each year of age...has been my experience.

I will go check the pics....

[tanza]

Tasha,
It is possible that Corky's color change may simply be due to coat changes or nutritional issues but when I looked at the pic of Corky standing up, something else occurred to me. There are two kinds of tri in Basenjis, "clear" and "fula". In simple terms, clear tris have clear demarcation between the three colors while "fula" has a tendency to "bleed" or "blend" the black and red areas. Corky's face definately looks like a "clear" but the "bleeding", or mixing of tan and black on the back of the legs and breeches, may indicate the presence of the "fula" gene. "Fula" is simply a color variation and there is nothing "wrong" with it. It is not connected to brindle.

lvoss, tanza, quercus...comments or thoughts?

I don't think by looking at the pictures that this is Fula either.... depending on the amount of white, you can see "bleeding also"... but again, you would see this from birth (or at least from 5wks on)... and they would not change to a Fula at 3... hearing that the food has changed.. I would again guess this is just a heavy blowing of coat and can take a month or more to shed out... and usually will start with the legs, especially the breeches...

[Quercus]

Saw the pics......I think it is just an unusual variation of tri color. With the tan extending very high. But Fula is just a variation of tri also, yes?

I think it may be related to blowing coat...but my guess is that this dog will always have some bleeding as an adult.

Definitely, DEFINITELY not a brindle or trindle. That ALWAYS involves stripes :)

And yes...the rule of thumb for all Basenjidom is once a month, regardless of what your vet says. Even with testing once a month, a dog can spill sugar on the day of testing in, say, October, and then be clear on the day of testing in November, and then spilling again on testing day in December...so some people test several days in a row each month. The longer you delay the discovery,the more damage can be done to the kidneys.

[tanza]

I haven't looked at the pics yet, but yes, my first thought was bleeding of colors. Lots, and lots of tris have color bleeding, particularly around the legs...and to a lesser amount in the face. It seems to increase with each year of age...has been my experience.

I will go check the pics....

Agreed Andrea.... and not link to a Fula.... and so much more noticeable with blowing coat.. I know that my Mickii (tri) does that... long stringy different colored hairs on her hind legs... LOL... she runs when she sees me coming with the stripping knife!

[tanza]

Saw the pics......I think it is just an unusual variation of tri color. With the tan extending very high. But Fula is just a variation of tri also, yes?

I think it may be related to blowing coat...but my guess is that this dog will always have some bleeding as an adult.

Definitely, DEFINITELY not a brindle or trindle. That ALWAYS involves stripes :)

And yes...the rule of thumb for all Basenjidom is once a month, regardless of what your vet says. Even with testing once a month, a dog can spill sugar on the day of testing in, say, October, and then be clear on the day of testing in November, and then spilling again on testing day in December...so some people test several days in a row each month. The longer you delay the discovery,the more damage can be done to the kidneys.

I know that when Parry discovered Jaadii spilling he was stripping 3 and 4 days in a row, because he just started, one day, nothing, next it showed spilling... Same with Eunice with Tiger Pete... and he started spilling at 2 1/2

And also you are always welcome to email or call Dr. Gonto... as is your Vet.. in fact he encourages it...

[YodelDogs]

"Fula" tri puppies normally do not show any, or very minimal, blending of red and black hairs. The blending or "bleeding" progresses as the dog ages. Some "fulas" have minimal blending (noticable only on very close inspection) and others can end up "salt and pepper" like a Schnauzer. Corky lacks the black cheek bar which would be a definative indicator of the "fula" gene though so I'm leaning towards him not being one. Puzzling to be sure.

[tasha]

OK, here he is. It's not a great shot. I probably should have taken it outside. But, you all know how hard it is to get a basenji to strike a pose outside. ;) This isn't even much of a pose. He was in the middle of showing me his belly. :)
http://homepage.mac.com/d3fnic/Images/co.jpg

[Quercus]

Robyn, the tris in the line I am most familiar with are definitely not Fula, and they definitely were very clear as puppies and have had some bleeding as they age. I wasn't sure if you meant that Fulas are the only ones that bleed as they age?

I was looking at Ivy tonight in really good light....she is going to be seven this year..wow! She has a little sprinkling of tan hairs around her eyes...and definitely some bleeding around her britches. She has never had one of these crazy blow outs that some tris have..though. I have seen some tris that looked positively wooley and gray during their coat change.

I am leaning towards him not being a Fula either...it kind of seems like his black is just not very full in coverage? It doesn't extend down the legs and under the belly like is typical.

[tanza]

OK, here he is. It's not a great shot. I probably should have taken it outside. But, you all know how hard it is to get a basenji to strike a pose outside. ;) This isn't even much of a pose. He was in the middle of showing me his belly. :)
http://homepage.mac.com/d3fnic/Images/co.jpg


This is classic "blowing coat".... give it a while, it will be back to "black"....

[tanza]

All that brown you see under the black body hair is the undercoat... and will all shed out...

[Quercus]

OK, here he is. It's not a great shot. I probably should have taken it outside. But, you all know how hard it is to get a basenji to strike a pose outside. ;) This isn't even much of a pose. He was in the middle of showing me his belly. :)
http://homepage.mac.com/d3fnic/Images/co.jpg

So, has he had the lighter color undercoat since you have had him? Or did this develop recently? If it developed recently, I am going to say he is blowing coat. He looks like a pretty typical tri to me :)

[tasha]

His undercoat was always that color.
Any ideas on the color between his ears?
BTW, Thanks! You guys are awesome basenji detectives!!! :D

[Quercus]

His undercoat was always that color.
Any ideas on the color between his ears?
BTW, Thanks! You guys are awesome basenji detectives!!! :D

Fairly normal..part of the bleeding of the red. It might be fun to have him DNA tested to see if he is genetically what we are guessing he is...

[tanza]

And looks like some bleeding of the red around his eyes also... and if that was the color of the undercoat since you had him... I think you are just seeing more of it now because he is blowing coat....

[Jodie]

I have noticed when viewing pics of member basenjis that the white parts of their body is pure white. Lillie is tri and the white parts of her body...her belly and her front and back legs have spots (freckles). I think it's adorable as I will never forget my friend telling me (when I was about 10 yrs old) that "freckles are a sign of beauty". That describes Lillie...beautiful!:)

Jodie

[tanza]

Kristii who is red is covered in "freckles"... depends on their pigment of course she is Tri Factored... and Mickii (Tri) has them too... I don't have any pure for reds, so can't say about that, all mine (4) are Tri or Tri factored...

[nomrbddgs]

Yuppers! He's blowing coat. My female tri looked like she was getting bald ears when she first started blowing coat. The black is coming back in now.

On the freckles issue, although Damisi is b/w she is covered in freckles throughout her white.

[tasha]

I love it that basenjis have freckles. It makes their looks more individually unique than a breed like the lab.

[tasha]

Fairly normal..part of the bleeding of the red. It might be fun to have him DNA tested to see if he is genetically what we are guessing he is...

I didn't realize that the DNA test can give coat color info. That is really cool!

[Quercus]

I didn't realize that the DNA test can give coat color info. That is really cool!


It is a fairly recent development, and I think the test was developed (or administered) by someone within the breed.