Lucy bit a kid- Lawsuit pending?!

[Larka]

So, I have Lucy, my Basenji mix and then there's Bart, my Husky mix. Well, Bart and Lucy go out in the yard on 30 foot leads to go to the bathroom. They're always supervised, and they're only out to go potty. There are a TON of neighborhood dogs and kids that come running into our yard. We always grab the dogs, have them sit and attempt to explain to the kids that you have to come at the dogs calmly and let them sniff you first. The kids don't seem to get it (or don't understand since they speak mostly Spanish) and continually run into my yard. If we don't grab the dogs, we tell them to sit or tell them to come in, and tell the kids to go away.

Well, today- the kids come running into the yard, flailing and screaming, and Lucy starts growling and her hair goes up. Rather than back off, one of the kids comes straight at Lucy. She jumps on him and nips him. I don't think it's bad at all, a small scratch, but the parents see it differently. The parents a screaming that they're going to sue me, and have carted the kid off to the hospital. So now I've talked to the cops, who confirm that the people will probably sue and it's all my fault. And I sit here and wait for them to get back and land me with the bill for the hospital visit and then land me with a lawsuit.

It pisses me off that it is turning out like this and I can't defend myself at all. I had to vent and get that out.

[Jodie]

Doesn't it mean anything that the kids came into your yard? If your dogs were leashed and in your yard, why is it your fault? I hope the child is Ok but I can't understand how they can sue you?
Jodie:)

[khanis]

In Oregon, you need a No Trespassing sign up around your yard.
If a person or another dog comes into your yard and is bit, you can state that your dog was in fear and bit to save its life.

If a Beware of Dog sign is put up, it basically states *I have a vicious dog* and you can be held liable for whatever your dog does to another person or animal.

Check with animal control on the ordinances. I know in Oregon, it is not your issues if the people coming in your yard are children (as their parents would then be held responsible for them) or can't read the english sign.

Good luck...I suggest finding an attorney that is well-versed in Animal Law.... a letter from the attorney may make it all go away very quick.

[lvoss]

I agree with Kathy, you will need to consult someone familiar with the laws in your area. The child came onto your property, if you asked them to leave and they remained on your property and attempted to touch or molest your dogs, you may have the law on your side. It will probably not stop the parents from suing you but it means that with proper representation they should not win their case.

[Larka]

The problem is that I live in a trailer park- I own my trailer, but I don't own the land it sits on. So technically it wasn't "my" yard since I don't own it. The cop said that even if the kid was in my house, unless the dog is on a 6ft or smaller leash, I am at fault. I think it's crap, and I'm looking up all the laws to see if I can figure something out.

I'm thinking that if they do decide to sue, that I can come back with something about child endangerment or something. The kid that was bit is no older than 5, and is always running around on his own. Before he came in my yard, he was jumping up and down in a tree, breaking branches off.

[senji]

Good Luck....I have kids and a dog and I think it's crap. I teach my children to ask before they approach any dog. The parents should be at fault not you, but what do I know We aren't "the law".

[lvoss]

I would contact a lawyer, if possible one that specializes in animal issues. You can look into your local regulations yourself, the cop you spoke to may have a different interpretation of the regulation than what is specifically written.

[dmcarty]

A dog from one of my first litters years and years ago - had an outdoor kennel run in the fenced back yard - the neighbor boy had poked at him with sticks. the neighbor boy also climbed the fence and ransacked their garden throwing tomatoes etc. They never reported these incidents wanting to be good neighbors - just talked to the parents.

The dog was chained to the back door - on a deck, that had a locked gate (they had a hot tub on the deck so locked gate) This same kid climbed the fence, came up to the deck - climbed over the locked gate and got bit by the dog. Guess whose fault it was? Yup the dog.

They say that if they had reported the trespass events earlier - it might have helped. This was a 10 year old boy.

I would call child protection on the family but after the fact is not likely to do much good.

Seems like common sense is gone.

[BDawg]

That is just ridiculous. There seems to be no consequences for stupid people these days. Where have all logical laws gone? Why can people be idiots and then blame it on you?? This makes me so mad. Don't even get me started on bad parenting!! I think there should be required screenings before PEOPLE should be allowed to breed!

[luvsmy2bs]

Yep, I agree. The world would be a better place if people were bread like dogs-- keeping the good qualities and weeding out the bad!

[dmcarty]

Once I showed a neighbor my "years of the American Basenji" books as I was researching a pedigree (long before online info) Her comment was - geez could we have that for husbands - with a list of things like - does windows etc.

I work in the schools and I have to say the parents that I see that are off the charts are so far off the charts that they should have not reproduced. They far overshadow the majority that are good and responsible. There just seems to be a sense of entitlement that I don't remember when I was a child.

"I'm entitled to whatever I want - and I can do what I want - there should be no consequences but someone better save me if I screw up."

[BDawg]

DMCarty- You nailed it! That sense of entitlement is out of control!! I got my masters in education and I couldn't stand to be in the school systems. So sad!

[dash]

I see both sides. My son got bit by a dog in another yard a couple years ago. I admitted his fault but the owners flat out would not accept any responsibility. It is a two way street. The kid is at fault for coming in your yard but you are at fault for not having your dog contained and easy access to children. If you offer to pay for the hospital bill that, in my mind, should be enough. Sue happy people are ridiculous. They hopefully will back down. You will have to keep your dog on a much tighter leash from now on though. If she does sue, I would think it would help to show you have made changes to keep this from happening again.

[Kebasmom]

Several years ago we were in Corpus Christi, TX visitng my in-laws. We had the dog (non-b) in the house. My husband's 8 year old nephew came running aroung the corner into the kitchen, ran right up to the dog and spit in his face at very close range. My dog barked and when he closed his mouth he nipped the kid on the lip. The dog was on an extremely short leash. Thankfully there were many people, including the 25 year old brother of the kid, who witnessed the event. They all gave the same story. Well, the kid needed two stitches. We offered to pay, were told no. We called our insurance company (USAA), just in case and were told that it was the dog's/our fault, even if the kid had been beating the dog with a lead pipe, it was the dog's/our fault and the parents had FIVE YEARS to file a claim in Texas!!!!! Call your insurance company and see if you have any protection through them.

[dmcarty]

My son who will be 30 in April - crawled in the neighbor dogs - dog house - when the dog was in it. He got nipped, I asked him - "What do you know now about dogs in their houses?" He said , "Leave them alone." I told him - good you learned something then. I did make sure with owners that the dog had his shots but that was fine.

My older son however was bit by the neighborhood beagle for no apparant reasons - I could have demanded that they put the dog down for a rabies test as they couldn't come up with proof of vacine - The compromise was they would quarantine the dog - that lasted 4 days and he was back wandering around - the police told them that I was very reasonable and if they didn't keep the dog confined that he would have no choice but to take it in and put it down to run the rabies test.

And as many of you know - I also just went through this with Foxy and Cami who got loose and picked a fight with a Westie.

[JazzysMom]

I see both sides. My son got bit by a dog in another yard a couple years ago. I admitted his fault but the owners flat out would not accept any responsibility. It is a two way street. The kid is at fault for coming in your yard but you are at fault for not having your dog contained and easy access to children. If you offer to pay for the hospital bill that, in my mind, should be enough. Sue happy people are ridiculous. They hopefully will back down. You will have to keep your dog on a much tighter leash from now on though. If she does sue, I would think it would help to show you have made changes to keep this from happening again.


We used to live in a mobile home park and we had a doberman. Typically you rent the lot the mobile is on, not just the space the mobile takes up. We put up a fence around our lot. It wasn't a big yard, but big enough for the dog to go potty in, and the fence kept our the neighborhood kids/dogs/cats, etc.
Can't you do that, rather then tether them where they are still accessible?

[Larka]

We're not allowed to put up fences. So we have the dogs on the leads, and we're out there with them. Like I could have stepped 2 feet and grabbed the leash the dog was on. They're not just running loose. When the father of the kid came over, he seemed content that it was his kid's fault when he found out the leads only go to the end of my yard. The mom was the one who was in hysterics and called the cops and then drug the kid to the hospital. I'm willing to pay the hospital bill (even though I feel that the kid didn't need to go to the hospital), but I don't want it to go any further. If they try to sue me for my dog, I'll get them for not having their kids supervised. I have neighbors willing to testify that these kids run around without a parent in sight, and I have video of it. These kids come in my yard, on my deck, they've even come in my house. And the oldest is like 11. I don't want to be penalized for them not paying attention to their kids, but I'm willing to apologize and meet half way. They haven't even spoken to me since this happened, even though I've made attempts to talk to them. I'm praying that it just all blows over.

[JazzysMom]

Well, that's a stupid rule, IMO. You know the old adage, "Good fences make good neighbors" is really appropriate here. Sooooooooo many problems can be avoided by simply allowing a fence, kwim?

I suppose you have the father's original reaction to use in your defense, although he'll most likely deny it.
You said it was a minor bite -- was there even any blood drawn?

I feel your pain, though. It's an awful feeling. Jazzy's bitten a kid twice -- once the girl I babysit, and one a friend's son. Both parents were VERY cool and understood that, in both cases, the kids were REALLY annoying the dog even though she'd given clear signals and the kids had been warned by adults.
We were very lucky -- very lucky. I've never before owned a dog that was "THAT dog", and it's very unnerving to me.

Of course, I'm sure your initial feeling of "Oh crap, my dog just bit a kid" was quickly cured by the crazy Mama and left you wishing she'd bitten the Mama instead.

Prayin' with you that it blows over and that the parents get a clue.

[tanza]

The breeder (and my first mentors) had some kids over to play (with the parents approval) with puppies... and you know how sharp those little baby teeth are... well one of the pups jump up and put a tooth through this kids ear lobe... (instant piercing..NOT).... animal control was called... mother had a fit... said would sue... Almost they took the pup until they were told the age and that he/she was still nursing and produced the rabies proof for the Mom... it was really a mess... and had the parents decided to go through with the suit, they most likely would have won.....

[Larka]

It was very minor, no blood. But it's one of those that swell up and will still probably scab even though it's not bleeding.

The other kids that were around tried to say the dogs were running loose, and had come into THEIR yard. They even said that story with the parents standing there when they came to yell at me. I was outside the whole time! They were not running loose, and I showed the dad the tie-out and he seemed content with that.

The kids couldn't keep the story straight of which dog nipped the kid.

The dad first excused us of not looking after his child when it happened. When it happened, I grabbed the dogs leads, wrapped them around another stake we have out there so they could barely move and went over to the kid. I repeatedly asked him if he was okay, the only response I got was muttered Spanish and screaming. Then the kid ran over to the house. I went to put the dogs inside, then I was going to go over there when the parents came to my house and started pounding on my door and yelling at me.

When the cops showed up. (The mom called them.) The cops wanted to know if Lucy was vicious. They wanted to see her outside of her kennel without a leash on. She sat, she laid down, she shook each of the officers hands and then she sat in their laps and hugged them, then gave them kisses. They were like- this is NOT a vicious dog. I explained to them that Lucy is a rescue, and that dogs from shelters usually WILL nip if spooked. They lived in a world where the thing scaring you was either going to kill you or take your food, so they react instinctively. The cops seemed okay with that. They loved Lucy. But they still said that the people could sue if they wanted to, and they might since there was no way to talk sense into the mom.

The only issue I had with the cops is when the first cop saw her, he was like "That's a PitBull." All the paperwork I have on her, which I showed him, has her listed as a Corgi mix (from the shelter she came from) or a Basenji mix (from all the vets she's been to.) Yeah, a TON of people think she's a Pit mix, but none of my paperwork says anything about PitBull and I'm going to leave it at that. I had to spell "Basenji" like 8 times to him, and had to get on the AKC's site and show him that it WAS a breed, and that's what she was. The funny thing was that when his partner got back from talking to the other people, she looked at Lucy and was like "Oh my god! A Basenji! Do you yodel? My baby yodels." She has a tri and had never seen a red and white in person. It was awesome.

[JazzysMom]

The only issue I had with the cops is when the first cop saw her, he was like "That's a PitBull." All the paperwork I have on her, which I showed him, has her listed as a Corgi mix (from the shelter she came from) or a Basenji mix (from all the vets she's been to.) Yeah, a TON of people think she's a Pit mix, but none of my paperwork says anything about PitBull and I'm going to leave it at that. I had to spell "Basenji" like 8 times to him, and had to get on the AKC's site and show him that it WAS a breed, and that's what she was. The funny thing was that when his partner got back from talking to the other people, she looked at Lucy and was like "Oh my god! A Basenji! Do you yodel? My baby yodels." She has a tri and had never seen a red and white in person. It was awesome.

That's a huge part of the pit bulls' bad reputation. Emergency officials and newspaper reports mis-identify them ALL THE TIME. Imagine if the Mom had called the paper -- Lucy would be called a pit-bull mix or something, no matter WHAT you told them.

Cool that Officer 2 had a B! That was really helpful, at least as far as the cops were concerned.

One of my kids got bit by a neigbor dog about 4 yrs ago. DD was 10 at the time. The neighbor lady had cancer and I frequently sent my kids over to check on her throughout the day. DD was running across the yard while the lady's obnoxious little mutt {who knew and loved my kids} was tied out. Little ol' Murphy just jumped up as DD passed and bit her on the butt!
Barely broke the skin, but it did break. We just cleaned her up and told her to stop running by tethered dogs, LOL.

Dogs are unpredictable. Duh.

[Quercus]

That's a huge part of the pit bulls' bad reputation. Emergency officials and newspaper reports mis-identify them ALL THE TIME. Imagine if the Mom had called the paper -- Lucy would be called a pit-bull mix or something, no matter WHAT you told them.

Cool that Officer 2 had a B! That was really helpful, at least as far as the cops were concerned.

One of my kids got bit by a neigbor dog about 4 yrs ago. DD was 10 at the time. The neighbor lady had cancer and I frequently sent my kids over to check on her throughout the day. DD was running across the yard while the lady's obnoxious little mutt {who knew and loved my kids} was tied out. Little ol' Murphy just jumped up as DD passed and bit her on the butt!
Barely broke the skin, but it did break. We just cleaned her up and told her to stop running by tethered dogs, LOL.

Dogs are unpredictable. Duh.

Especially dogs that are tied out! A huge percentage of dog attacks come from dogs that are routinely tied out.

[Barklessdog]

A basenji can never kill a person and only bites if feeling threatened.

The most the bites we have received leave bruises (big ones with their powerful jaws)and or puncture wounds.

Just keep their rabbi shots up to date!

sue for what?

A small puncture wound & bruises?

If not on the face I doubt they would get much other than you pay for the Dr. bill.

Has anyone been bitten bad enough to get stitches?

[JazzysMom]

A basenji can never kill a person and only bites if feeling threatened.

The most the bites we have received leave bruises (big ones with their powerful jaws)and or puncture wounds.

Just keep their rabbi shots up to date!

sue for what?

A small puncture wound & bruises?

If not on the face I doubt they would get much other than you pay for the Dr. bill.

Has anyone been bitten bad enough to get stitches?

I have to disagree. I believe fully that a Basenji certainly COULD kill, esp a child. It is not likely going to happen, but it sure could.

And to say that a breed "only bites when it feels threatened" seems naive to me. Any dog could possibly bite at any time for any reason. And an unstable dog of any breed will do just that.

Sue for medical costs -- ER visits are very pricey, and in some places you can get pain and suffering costs added on to that. They could be talking a very hefty sum of money.

Jazzy bit my friend's 6 yo old son the face, and it did require a couple of stitches. She tore the area above his lip right down to the lip. That obvious scar will be there for life.

[nomrbddgs]

There is a judge out there that used to have basenji's. Her one had a tumor (unbeknownst to her) and attacked her one day. She has very vivid scars. If her husband wasn't there the dog would probably have killed her. All animals have the capacity to kill. She decided it wasn't going to affect her life and is still a judge for group 2.

[Quercus]

I have to disagree. I believe fully that a Basenji certainly COULD kill, esp a child. It is not likely going to happen, but it sure could.

And to say that a breed "only bites when it feels threatened" seems naive to me. Any dog could possibly bite at any time for any reason. And an unstable dog of any breed will do just that.

Sue for medical costs -- ER visits are very pricey, and in some places you can get pain and suffering costs added on to that. They could be talking a very hefty sum of money.

Jazzy bit my friend's 6 yo old son the face, and it did require a couple of stitches. She tore the area above his lip right down to the lip. That obvious scar will be there for life.

I agree with everything posted above. And as far as suing...sometimes the vicitim doesn't have an option. We found that out when Tim broke his ankle slipping on ice. Our medical insurance sued the owner of the parking lot, we didn't have any say in it at all.

[senji]

When I was a kid we had a B. My parents showed him. He was from a good Kennel...(Walkers and Works). He got loose one day and stuck his head in a ground hog hole. My dad grabbed him. He didn't realize it was my dad and bit his wrist. He should have had stitches. He also had my dad trapped on top of their chest freezer after a hunting trip until he realized it was him. I know I feel safe because Deke wouldn't let anyone in we didn't want in. that is one reason why it takes a certain type of person to own Bs. We say it on here all the time.

[JazzysMom]

I agree with everything posted above. And as far as suing...sometimes the vicitim doesn't have an option. We found that out when Tim broke his ankle slipping on ice. Our medical insurance sued the owner of the parking lot, we didn't have any say in it at all.

Good point. Any time our kids have had any kind of visit to the ER, the insurance won't pay out a dime until we've filed an accident report stating the where/when/how/who's property info.
Fortunately, it's always been situations where we can indicate the fault lies with the child.

In a dog bite case, I'm sure there is NO option for that. Their insurance company WILL probably sue for at least the cost of the visit to the ER {which could be hundreds even if they don't *do* anything}, and then there goes your home-owners or renters insurance rates

the whole situation just sucks. :(

[Larka]

My neighborhood is VERY prone to break-ins and robberies. When I first moved in, the neighbors had someone break in and assault the wife, she ended up with her arm broken in 2 places. In my opinion, in this neighborhood, a dog who bites a stranger that is coming into it's area should be given a medal.

The problem with homeowners insurance is that we didn't have it when this happened. We had just moved into the trailer, were still new to the city, so it was taking us awhile to get it. We were going to get it Monday, this happened Saturday. :(

I'm still willing to come out of pocket for the hospital bill. I figured like $500, I'm fine with that. I'm just worried about them doing anything else. We just found out that the people who lived here before us moved out because someone in the neighborhood killed their dog because it was running loose.

[JazzysMom]

My neighborhood is VERY prone to break-ins and robberies. When I first moved in, the neighbors had someone break in and assault the wife, she ended up with her arm broken in 2 places. In my opinion, in this neighborhood, a dog who bites a stranger that is coming into it's area should be given a medal.

The problem with homeowners insurance is that we didn't have it when this happened. We had just moved into the trailer, were still new to the city, so it was taking us awhile to get it. We were going to get it Monday, this happened Saturday. :(

I'm still willing to come out of pocket for the hospital bill. I figured like $500, I'm fine with that. I'm just worried about them doing anything else. We just found out that the people who lived here before us moved out because someone in the neighborhood killed their dog because it was running loose.

Oh, geez. Something else to have to worry about.

You haven't heard anything else yet? I think the waiting would kill me.

[Larka]

I just got a visit from Animal Control... I had just let the dogs in and then they go back to the door, pointing, going "Mom, someone's here." I threw them both in one of the extra rooms and then answered the door and totally thought my heart stopped when I saw it was Animal Control.

But the guy was totally awesome. He had looked at the tie-outs and seen how far they went and how strong they were before he knocked on my door. He said that the "bite" was actually just a scratch. He asked to see Lucy's tags and all her paperwork, then asked to see Lucy. She's on house arrest until November 7th, but I can live with that. He said that the people have no leg to stand on, and the case through the County and Animal Control will be dropped on the 7th after they come see Lucy again and say she's free from house arrest. And if they want to still take it to civil court, I have all my paperwork for Lucy and all the paperwork for this case, and the Animal Control guy said that the judge will laugh in these people's faces.

AND- This Animal Control guy has been to my neighborhood THREE times for these people's chihuahua because they let it run loose! AHHAHAHAHAHA. He said that if the dog gets in my yard again, to pick it up, put it in my house and call Animal Control and they'll come get it since they already have all that on file.

[dash]

good news. I feel bad for the chihuahua though.

[Quercus]

I just got a visit from Animal Control... I had just let the dogs in and then they go back to the door, pointing, going "Mom, someone's here." I threw them both in one of the extra rooms and then answered the door and totally thought my heart stopped when I saw it was Animal Control.

But the guy was totally awesome. He had looked at the tie-outs and seen how far they went and how strong they were before he knocked on my door. He said that the "bite" was actually just a scratch. He asked to see Lucy's tags and all her paperwork, then asked to see Lucy. She's on house arrest until November 7th, but I can live with that. He said that the people have no leg to stand on, and the case through the County and Animal Control will be dropped on the 7th after they come see Lucy again and say she's free from house arrest. And if they want to still take it to civil court, I have all my paperwork for Lucy and all the paperwork for this case, and the Animal Control guy said that the judge will laugh in these people's faces.

AND- This Animal Control guy has been to my neighborhood THREE times for these people's chihuahua because they let it run loose! AHHAHAHAHAHA. He said that if the dog gets in my yard again, to pick it up, put it in my house and call Animal Control and they'll come get it since they already have all that on file.

Well...good that AC is on your side....but I don't know if I would get involved with the situation with the neighbor's dog. Personally, I wouldn't want to give them any reason to be angry with me, particularly with the concern you mentioned about the prior residents having their dog killed!

I hope things get better in the neighborhood for you!

[felakuti]

lets have some common sense here, you had full knowledge that the kids had a tendency to run into your yard and yet you tied the dogs out there without supervision anyway, and you also knew what kind of temperament your basenji has. I am sorry but YOU are the one responsible. Never in a million years would I tie up a basenji in my yard when i knew there were kids running around and playing. what are you nuts or something? geesh

[dash]

lets have some common sense here, you had full knowledge that the kids had a tendency to run into your yard and yet you tied the dogs out there without supervision anyway, and you also knew what kind of temperament your basenji has. I am sorry but YOU are the one responsible. Never in a million years would I tie up a basenji in my yard when i knew there were kids running around and playing. what are you nuts or something? geesh


The dogs were supervised. I really think stuff happens. You should be able to tie your dogs in your yard and not have people running in it. She agreed that she was responsible and would pay for the hospital bill. I think you are being a little harsh and basically an ass. I am not sure if you are on here as a joke or you are really this rude.

[senji]

No one has the right to enter your property!!!! The kids were told to stay away from the dog. Children should be able to respect animals and property. I have children..the problem is too many parents have stopped parenting and let kids do whatever. If my child got scratched by someone elses dog in their yard I'd tell them it's a good lesson to learn and you're lucky it was only a scratch. My own cat has scratched my kids because they didn't leave her alone when they should of. RESPECT..children need to learn that again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tanza]

lets have some common sense here, you had full knowledge that the kids had a tendency to run into your yard and yet you tied the dogs out there without supervision anyway, and you also knew what kind of temperament your basenji has. I am sorry but YOU are the one responsible. Never in a million years would I tie up a basenji in my yard when i knew there were kids running around and playing. what are you nuts or something? geesh

That is a bit harsh?.... She already said that they watch them when they are tied out?

[Basenji_Boy]

what are you nuts or something? geesh


Uncalled for really.....shame shame.:(

[luvsmy2bs]

Have people gone crazy in this country????? What has happened to personal responsibility?????? From the sounds of it Larka was doing her part -- keeping her dogs in her yard,,,,,,,,,the neighbors with the kids have NOT done there part,,,,,,maybe they should tie their kids out and let the dogs run free for a while and see how they like it!!!!

[lvoss]

lets have some common sense here, you had full knowledge that the kids had a tendency to run into your yard and yet you tied the dogs out there without supervision anyway, and you also knew what kind of temperament your basenji has. I am sorry but YOU are the one responsible. Never in a million years would I tie up a basenji in my yard when i knew there were kids running around and playing. what are you nuts or something? geesh
I think you should read the entire post that started this thread instead of bashing someone who did everything she could think of to prevent just such a situation but can not control the bad choices of her neighbors. The dogs were supervised, they are only outside to potty which the owner has a right to do. The property owners refuse to allow any sort of fencing which really only encourages this dangerous situation. The owner has worked with both dogs so she can try to prevent these incidents but the children do not listen to her verbal requests to stay off her property and away from her dogs and the parents are not present to control their children. The person did not stand idly by and allow this to happen, it happened because they could not control their dogs and their neighbors unsupervised children simultaneously.

It is sad to see someone attack another on this forum for trying to do the responsible thing.

[Barklessdog]

Yes, the owner is always responsible for the dog, but when people or other animals do something unexpected or even if they have been warned, how can anyone control that?

In hind sight it's easy, but we all make mistakes and unforeseen things happen that sometimes you can't control.

I have never heard of a basenji seriously hurting anyone.

[Larka]

Wow, that harsh one was out of left field... I WAS out there with my dogs, I'm ALWAYS out there with my dogs. The kids have been told to stay out of my yard. And a 4 year old running loose doesn't say much for the parents. Even when kids come in my yard, I grab my dogs, have them sit, and explain to the kids that if they want to pet the dogs, they have to be calm and gentle. The kid scared Lucy, it had nothing to do with her temperament. And all she did was jump up, knock him down and then run away under my deck. After it happened, I grabbed the dogs, secured them to where they had only about 2 feet to move and went to check on the kid. I'm trained EMS- I was a Navy Hospital Corpsman. The kid wouldn't let me near him and took off.

Tonight I went over there with a huge thing of candy and a big bag of dog treats. I apologized again to both parents, asked the kid if he was okay (you can no longer see any sign of the scratch) and let him pick what he wanted and as much as he wanted from the candy bowl and gave the parents the treats for the dog. They seemed better, way more calm and thanked me for the candy and dog treats.

[Quercus]

lets have some common sense here, you had full knowledge that the kids had a tendency to run into your yard and yet you tied the dogs out there without supervision anyway, and you also knew what kind of temperament your basenji has. I am sorry but YOU are the one responsible. Never in a million years would I tie up a basenji in my yard when i knew there were kids running around and playing. what are you nuts or something? geesh


Well...hmmm...I certainly could leave some of my basenjis tied out while kids were running around...they wouldn't even think twice about it...worst case, they might get really tangled, or chew their way free....but that is beside the point....

I think your post is overly harsh...and doesn't reflect the whole story, as Larka has mentioned the dogs WERE supervised; the child was unsupervised; things happen; the child is okay, the dog is okay

[Vanessa]

Larka,

I am not entirely sure what the laws are in TX but in California, it is strict liability. You own a dog..you are liable for what your dog does. Even if someone is on your property. It doesn't matter if you post a "beware of dog sign" you are still liable if your dog attacks and injures someone.
I understand your situation. It’s a catch 22. This child ran towards your dog. Your dog was defending itself. This was your front yard. The courts out here don't see it that way. Basically people are supposed to control their dog no matter what. Even if the dog gets loose and you are not there.
Now with the family threatening that they will sue...I think you will be ok. This is the first offense with your pup. Animal control came to your home and checked everything out. Be cooperative with them and offer to help and if I were you, I would offer to help pay any medical expenses that the child has.
Usually animal control will take your dog and keep it for a period of 5-7 days to observe its behavior. Usually this is done if the attack is severe. If they have not done that than that’s a good thing.

I really do feel bad for what you are going through. People are quick to jump on the "lets sue" bandwagon before even trying to resolve situations amicably. Just stay in contact with animal control and your be cooperative with local authorities.
Good luck and please keep us posted. .

[jenwilson]

lets have some common sense here, you had full knowledge that the kids had a tendency to run into your yard and yet you tied the dogs out there without supervision anyway, and you also knew what kind of temperament your basenji has. I am sorry but YOU are the one responsible. Never in a million years would I tie up a basenji in my yard when i knew there were kids running around and playing. what are you nuts or something? geesh

Sounds like you owe someone and APOLOGY!!! SHAME :mad:

[JazzysMom]

lets have some common sense here, you had full knowledge that the kids had a tendency to run into your yard and yet you tied the dogs out there without supervision anyway, and you also knew what kind of temperament your basenji has. I am sorry but YOU are the one responsible. Never in a million years would I tie up a basenji in my yard when i knew there were kids running around and playing. what are you nuts or something? geesh


Just wondering where and when the parental responsibility kicks in?

I have six kids, and if they, ESP. if they'd been warned, ran past any dog, but esp. a tethered dog and were bitten...... there would for sure be hell to pay -- but it'd be my kids were who paying!!!!!!

[Larka]

Just wondering where and when the parental responsibility kicks in?

I have six kids, and if they, ESP. if they'd been warned, ran past any dog, but esp. a tethered dog and were bitten...... there would for sure be hell to pay -- but it'd be my kids were who paying!!!!!!


Seriously! My older brother was mauled by a Rottweiler when he was about 9. Why was he mauled? Because he went into the fenced yard where the Rott lived and took it's food bowl. Yes, my parents flipped out, but THEY took responsibility for not looking after their kid. They didn't just turn around and go "We should sue them for this." My brother learned a lesson about getting in fences with strange dogs, my parents learned to keep a closer eye on their kids and the people who owned the Rott learned that he was food aggressive. Everybody learned from it, no one sued, and life went on.

I've been working with Animal Control and my local County Sheriffs Department. My dog is on "house arrest" until the 7th. She can't be in contact with people other than me and my roommate, she can't be in contact with dogs other than our other dog, she can't go to the dog park and she can't go to the vet unless it's an emergency. I've already admitted that my dog jumped on their kid, I've already apologized and I've already made clear that I am willing to pay them up to a reasonable point. I'm not just sitting here going "Oh my god, my dog bit a kid and now they want to sue. This is crap, I'm not at fault at all." I know that there is SOME blame to be laid with me, but the whole situation is not my fault. I'm willing to come forward for my part, now I just want the parents of this kid to come forward on theirs.

[Vanessa]

Larka,
If you find out that the parents decide to sue, PM me and I'll track down counsel for you in Tx. I work for an attorney in Ca.

[ChaseandZahrasmom]

Larka,

Hopefully this will all blow over. Maybe the parents just overeacted because they knew they were in the wrong the child was crying and adrenaline was going.

My fingers are crossed for you that this all just goes away quietly without issues.

[felakuti]

Perhaps everyone here will think twice about tethering their dogs in yards where children play nearby and are apt to run into the yard. A tethered dog is an attraction for playing children as much as a swimming pool is, and most areas have laws now that pools have to have a fence with a locked gate. There is a lesson to be learned and our pups need to be protected from the children as much as they need to be protected from our pups.

[JazzysMom]

Perhaps everyone here will think twice about tethering their dogs in yards where children play nearby and are apt to run into the yard. A tethered dog is an attraction for playing children as much as a swimming pool is, and most areas have laws now that pools have to have a fence with a locked gate. There is a lesson to be learned and our pups need to be protected from the children as much as they need to be protected from our pups.

So.... in a mobile home park where they are not allowed to put up fences,
you don't want supervised, tethered dogs? Ummm, just what are they supposed to do with the dogs? I guess, Larka, you just paper-train them and show them photos of what outside looks like.

{Don't say walk them on a leash, because a kid that is running free and has no respect for neighbors or dogs will also run up to and into the face of the dog on the leash. Kids are fast, and you can't always get the dog behind you fast enough. The DOG is not the biggest issue here. The KIDS are}

[renaultf1]

The DOG is not the biggest issue here. The KIDS are

Exactly right...and as others have also said, the parents lack of supervision (and keeping the kids out of Larka's yard) is also the issue.

Felakuti...as much as you are saying this particular thread is a straight forward issue about tethering dogs, it isn't that way at all. And to think when I saw your new post I thought I was going to read an apology...I'm disappointed. :(

[JazzysMom]

The thing is, even animal control agrees, Larka WAS doing all a responsible owner should have needed to do. The dogs were tethered, ie confined to her own space; the dogs WERE supervised; the children had been repeatedly told NOT to run by the dogs. Larka immediately put the dog up and checked on the child, and offered to cover hospital bills.

It's not as if Larka is trying to shirk any responsibility here. THAT would be what the mother of the children is trying to do -- not be responsible for the supervision and/or proper social education of her children. Looking for money the "easy" way.

I have kids. I have dogs. So I'm not "on the side" of either. I'm on the side of whatever is the "right thing" to do.
It'd be different if Larka's dog was loose, or if she'd tied the dog up and left the park {although, there IS still something to be said about teaching your children to respect other's boundaries.....},or if she'd never warned the kids/parents. There are so many variables that could have been at play, but were not.

Hang in there, Larka. and be sure to keep us posted!

[Alex]

May I remind everyone that the purpose of this forum is to provide a place for Basenji owners to make connections, exchange information and assist and encourage one another. It is above all a friendly environment for online discussion. You can read more about our community rules here:

http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=374

Here are some points that might be of interest:
Don't be rude to others, or make an argument personal
If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all
Know the difference between a difference of opinion and a personal attack
Don't try to "win" an argument by repeating yourself over and over
Don't tell others what to post
Keep it clean, don't use profanityWhy can't I tell someone what an idiot he/she is; every single thing he/she posts is just so wrong?

If you can't find a respectful way to express your difference of opinion, then you're better off saying nothing at all. Don't talk down to other posters, lecture them or be rude and dismissive. Disagreement is fine, but attacking another poster personally may get you in trouble.

Thank you for your participation,

[JazzysMom]

I do apologize for my part in the bickering. I guess sometimes I break the rules I set for my kids about pointless bickering and choosing battles.

I am sorry,

[Alex]

JazzysMom, my comment was not directed at you specifically. Just reminding everyone about the etiquette on this forum.

[massagemom3]

I know this may sound off track but...I've noticed that a few/one of the members on this forum can be very rude at times. At one point I was told some harsh things , that almost made me want to never come back to this forum. But then I realized, I can just simple block them, and choose to ignore them. I can't judge a group based on just a few/one member.

I'll say a prayer that everything works out for Larka & her neighbors. I know these kind of situations are never easy to live with.

[JazzysMom]

Yep, I agree. The world would be a better place if people were bread like dogs-- keeping the good qualities and weeding out the bad!

Ahh, but who gets to set THAT standard? Pretty scary proposition!!!

[JazzysMom]

[QUOTE=massagemom3]I know this may sound off track but...I've noticed that a few/one of the members on this forum can be very rude at times. At one point I was told some harsh things , that almost made me want to never come back to this forum. But then I realized, I can just simple block them, and choose to ignore them. I can't judge a group based on just a few/one member.QUOTE]

Right. We all have grumpy days. AND, on email and e-forums, etc. you can't read body language or tone, so it's also very easy to misinterpret what is said, and how it was meant.

It's often best to let those comments that appear to be rude or harsh just roll off our backs.....

.... but sometimes . . . . :o . . it's just too easy to snap back! Or appear to snap back.

Internet communication is a such a blessing and such a curse!

[massagemom3]

:) I hear ya!

[Barklessdog]

I know I have said things that are rather blunt or harsh and never have meant any harm or apologize for anything I am unaware of.

I do like a good discussion and to challenge people's ideas (like no one showing image proof of other dogs having basenji like paws - I'm still waiting)

I believe everyone here means well and no one is truly mean, just maybe a bit over opinionated- we all are to some degree- lets face it -we are Basenji owners. It takes a special strong willed person to really be successful with these dogs. I'm still learning. Everyday things are better & better with our dogs (only took 7 years-we dont give up on our family)

I guess what's really needed here is more firm moderators to step in and delete or reprimand when things are going south, locking or deleting comments & threads- Thats what forum moderators are supposed to do.

[Quercus]

I know I have said things that are rather blunt or harsh and never have meant any harm or apologize for anything I am unaware of.

I do like a good discussion and to challenge people's ideas (like no one showing image proof of other dogs having basenji like paws - I'm still waiting)

I believe everyone here means well and no one is truly mean, just maybe a bit over opinionated- we all are to some degree- lets face it -we are Basenji owners. It takes a special strong willed person to really be successful with these dogs. I'm still learning. Everyday things are better & better with our dogs (only took 7 years-we dont give up on our family)

I guess what's really needed here is more firm moderators to step in and delete or reprimand when things are going south, locking or deleting comments & threads- Thats what forum moderators are supposed to do.

Wow! Really? I think the moderators are doing a perfect job. I am on more than one message board, and I think the conversations here are very civil, supportive and on topic.

The few times that things have really deteriorated, the fact that threads haven't been shut down has given people the opportunity to apologize (myself included) when they realized they had hurt someone, or been too critical or harsh.

We are all grown-ups here...all thinking rational people. We all know how to play nice, and we know when we have stepped over the line, and what to do about it. I think the moderation is just right :)

[Basenji_Boy]

I've participated in football forums and trust me this site is very tame in comparison. As Jazzy points out sometimes you can't really know what the poster is trying to say or it comes off differently than the poster intended.

It's just about respecting each other's opinion people, we don't have to agree, but we don't have to show disrespect either.

[massagemom3]

I appreciate and except your apology.

[TuckerVA]

I've posted about Tucker being aggressive before and I think it might apply a bit here as this situation is VERY 'close to home'. I am VERY careful with my dog knowing his tendancies. However, there is the rare occasion where he ends up tangled with another dog who pops around a corner or gets uncomfortably close to a person and there is a risk of that person getting bit. Tucker HAS bitten. He's bitten MANY people as a matter of fact. Noone is perfect and I really feel like I do a great job in avoiding these situations and managing my dog's contact with others.

The simply fact is that even when you are there, and when you are taking what you feel is EVERY precaution, stuff happens that is beyond your control. I learn a new lesson with Tucker every day. Owning a B, especially a B that has been in and out of fosters, moved, abused, etc is almost like a second job. I can't let my guard down for one second with Tucker. I even considered, for a brief period in heavy frustration (peeing everywhere, shredding duvets, general bad behavior), giving him back to BRAT for rehoming and I have had experience with B's in my past. In the end, however, the rewards of having him in my life far outweighed how I would feel now were he not here. There was just an adjustment period that I know fully understand. Now, I leave him alone in my condo with full access. We've reached that 'mutual respect' level and he never disappoints me because I never let him down. It seems to be exactly what my B needed in his life. Someone to take him in, struggle through the adjustments to his FIFTH home where others apparently couldn't, protect him, take care of him and treat him with respect and let him be a B.

One realizes how important their pet is when they are almost hit by a car (last night) and they yank their dog out from in front of the car (that ran a stop sign) before jumping to safety themselves.

In my opinion, he couldn't be a more perfect dog. :)

[senji]

Wow...glad i read your post. It's very touching you've stuck it out with him...GOOD FOR YOU...you've really come through for him. Glad you're both ok after the car incident.

[ChristyRutherford]

Larka,
Good luck with all of this.
I do have a question about if they do sue. Can you counter sue for trespassing?
It is sad that there are people that would take advantage of the situation and sue. I have an aunt and uncle that are the same way and it just baffles me. It is like the person that sued when they spilled hot coffee on themselves.
personal responsibilty--people !!!!:p
Really, good luck.

[Alex]

We have considered moderation and decided against it for the time being. We want this forum to be a happy self policing community created by Basenji owners for Basenji owners.

Several of us read the forums daily and we do get alerted by senior members if things get out of control. Then we just remind people about the forum rules. :)

So far our reminders about respecting each other worked well and noone had to be booted. Some members left because they just could not handle a difference of opinion or did not want give into the argument. But in the end we think it was the best for the rest of Basenji Forums community and the new people that are lurking around deciding whether to join or not.

[Larka]

I couldn't really get them for trespassing since I don't have a fence so we can't prove that they were in my yard. I've toyed with the idea of getting Child Services involved since this 3 or 4 year old should NOT be running the neighborhood without adult supervision. But it seems like it's going to blow over. At least I pray that it does.

Animal Control will be here at some point today to let Lucy off "house arrest". I think that we're going to celebrate with a trip to the dog park and a small shopping trip so she can pick out a new toy. :)

I've seriously considered giving Lucy up along the way. We got her from the shelter, she'd been returned twice because she was "destructive" and had spent 6 months in the shelter by the time I got her. She had about 3 months where she peed everywhere, destroyed everything she could get ahold of and ran off every chance she got- and it did a LOT to my nerves and I really wanted to give her back. But I toughed it out. And I didn't realize just how much I cared about her until she jumped on that kid and they were talking about taking her from me. She's my little kid and I wouldn't give her up for anything. :) Right now she's curled up on my sofa sleeping with my Husky laying his head on her like she's a pillow and I'm thinking "My kids are so cute, I love them so much."

[Tayda_Lenny]

So I just read this whole post and Larka, I feel bad for the situation you are in. I can completely empathize with what you are going through based on my previous experiences with Lenny/Tayda and the neighborhood kids when i was in michigan. I hope everything goes all right and I'm glad the AC guy was on your side. Today is Nov 7th! Lucy is done w/ house arrest now!

It also makes me even more certain that my move to another apartment is the right thing to do. For those who haven't read my post on "moving woes," my current landlords do not want me supervising my dogs in the yard because they feel it is an invasion of their privacy since their bedroom windows are at the same level as the yard. These landlords regularly have visitors (humans and canines) and I am 100000% sure i would not be comfortable having lenny and tayda meet people/dogs without me there.

[gbroxon]

I couldn't really get them for trespassing since I don't have a fence so we can't prove that they were in my yard....

Would they stoop to lying under oath? Saying that the dog was OUT of his yard when the bite happened?

I do hope it blows over. It sounds like it was blown way out of proportion.

[RockysWoman]

We had an issues a few years ago with neighborhood kids running thru our yard. (Our B is let out on a 45 foot run in the back yard... yard is not fenced). At any rate, we had explained to all the kids in the neighborhood who frequented our yard about the dogs "no touch" policy, etc. We had a couple of kids though who loved to terrorize our B (throwing sticks, taunting him to run and snap at the end of his line, etc). The first time it happend, we told this kids parents to have their kids knock it off. The second time, we called and reported the incident to the police. I wasn't about to let the third time happen with a dog bite and have the police confiscate my dog.

Advice for all: Anytime you start to have issues with kids and dogs in your yard, report it to the police. A paper trail thru your local precinct detailing the protective measures you have taken, as well as any trepasses and/or issues with the locals that you have, go a long way in a court of law establishing who actually is "at fault".

Best of luck. God love our sue-happy country. *bleh*

[ChristyRutherford]

Is there any update on this situation?

[Kris_Christine]

Larka,

Is Lucy up to date on her rabies shots? Make sure you have the documentation -- call your vet for a copy if you don't have it at home (her life could depend on this).

If she is overdue for a booster, take her in immediately to get a rabies titer done.

Hopefully nothing will come of all this, but if it should, it's best to be prepared.

Kris

[Larka]

I know it's been a while, but I haven't been on in some time and figured I'd update everyone.

Nothing ended up coming of it. Lucy served out her house arrest with no issues. The kids no longer come in my yard, which is a good thing. But we still have issues with the kids running wild through the neighborhood. And recently have had issues with stray dogs running around. But I now work for the county Animal Control since the shelter I worked at went under. So when all the stray dogs come into my yard, I scoop them up and take them in. :)

[sharronhurlbut]

Glad it turned out ok.

[BDawg]

Larka, seems like everything worked out!

[dmcarty]

Thanks for the update - I hate hanging endings and love good outcomes.

[Larka]

I know we love good outcomes, but....


I replied about a month ago that everything was good...
Well these people got a new dog- a little lab puppy. The dog runs all over the neighborhood, no collar or anything. I found the dog 2 blocks away once.

Well, twice now the dog has gotten into my yard- messing with my dogs when I let them out. I have my dogs tied up, and the dog doesn't come fully into my yard. Both times I've picked up the dog and taken it back to it's house. Today I took the dog over there, and the mom was standing outside. I give the dog back, and try to give her a collar and leash, but she says she has stuff but he keeps getting loose. Well, I think that's crap because this dog acted like he'd never been on a leash before or ever had a collar on. So I give the dog back, and she goes- "I've been knocking on your door the past couple days, but no one has answered." She sounded really mad. I go- "Well, maybe no one was home." She rolls her eyes and goes- "I got the bill from EMS because my husband's insurance won't pay for it. It's $104- I need you to pay at least half." I'm thinking "Oh god, why now? Why is it suddenly 7 months later she's doing this?" I tell her that I have to discuss it with my roommate, and we'll get back to her. Well, we go over and agree on the half, so I now owe $52 bucks to this lady.

I still know I'm right, and I shouldn't have to pay- but I don't need this blowing up. And I wanted to tell her- "Don't you realize that the insurance won't pay for the EMS because you called them, then REFUSED to let them take your kid to the hospital?!" I'm so mad right now. But I guess I'm taking $52 over there tomorrow... Maybe I should go over there in my Animal Control uniform and ask if she'd like me to take the stray dogs off her hands. :D

[RockysWoman]

Hardy har har! I think you should go ask to claim the "stray dog"! Before you hand her a check though, talk to your insurance agent. If a claim was filed with your insurance in regards to this whole mess, it needs to go thru your insurance, or risk negating your policy or any further claims assistance from your policy (sorry... insurance agent in me speaking up here). Best of luck!

[Larka]

Hardy har har! I think you should go ask to claim the "stray dog"! Before you hand her a check though, talk to your insurance agent. If a claim was filed with your insurance in regards to this whole mess, it needs to go thru your insurance, or risk negating your policy or any further claims assistance from your policy (sorry... insurance agent in me speaking up here). Best of luck!

I doubt the woman knows mine or my roommates names- so that would be interesting if they talked to our insurance... As far as I know- they didn't talk to insurance or anything.

I stated from the beginning that I'd be willing to at least cover the hospital trip- even though I wasn't at fault- and Animal Control and the sheriffs department were in agreement with me. I just didn't want this blowing up in my face- and now she's saying that if I don't pay at least half, that she'll get her money "other ways". Now, I have ALL the documentation from both the sheriffs department and animal control stating that it was the child's fault and not mine- but I don't want to drag this through court. I just want to pay her and have her leave me alone.

[TuckerVA]

You can always get your money back, rather, give yourself a level of satisfaction that you're 'getting even' just by performing about $52 worth of late night vandalism... ;)

I am just kidding, but when people take advantage of other people, it really pisses me off. I think I would have punched that person in the face and then asked her to prove I hit her. Better yet, you could punch YOURSELF in the face and tell the cops SHE hit YOU. It makes about as much sense as what she is doing to you. I'm kinda a jerk when it comes to getting wronged and I feel you are getting wronged. There would be no end to the 'getting even' I would do with this person... Grrrrrr! :)

[sharronhurlbut]

I would pay her the $$ and let it go.
BUT I would pick up this pup she has and take it to the shelter as a stray dog.
That poor dog will be hit by a car or poisoned by someone who is yard proud.
Those neighbors are bad news...the farther you can stay from them, the better.

[Robin_n_Jack]

I would totally take the dog in. She doesn't have him on a leash or collar? Well, most states have leash laws, and if it doesn't have a collar or leash, well, then....it must be a stray, right?

[wizard]

For my two cents -- don't pick up her "stray" at least not yet. If she finds out you work for animal control AND picked up her dog you'll have no end of retaliation problems. It will escalate big time.
You could just take your lawn hose and spray her dog the next time it comes over and pesters you - she wouldn't necessarily know you sprayed it, any neighbor could, but it might make her be more careful about letting the dog loose.
However, send her a copy (anonymously of course) of the local leash laws or whatever official documentation there is regarding dog statutes and whatever neighborhood association rules you have. Then when she doesn't comply, you'll havesome ammunition to send in Animal Control.

[Robin_n_Jack]

Yeah, you are probably right. I take it back. I never think about how things can escalate.....that just happens to be a big pet peeve of mine....people who don't watch their dog, keep them off leash, and their dogs pester mine.

[Larka]

This lady already has a huge file on her at animal control because of her chihuahua that runs the neighborhood. She's now managed to put a collar on that, and get a rabies tag- but it still runs loose and does not have a registration tag. This lab puppy is a new addition- and also runs the neighborhood without a collar or tags. She honestly has an animal control officer dedicated just to her- he's the one who showed up when this all started. He'd be the one to come get the dog or dogs- unless I find it several blocks away again.

And she was telling me yesterday that I couldn't have my dogs out on their lead- they had to be on a leash in my hand. I wanted to laugh. Cause while she was telling me this, the chihuahua was out on the deck with no leash and the lab puppy was running around the yard with no collar or leash. :rolleyes: And her puppy bit my hand last night... I know he was just playing, but I do have scratches all over my hand. I was really tempted to go "Look! Your dog bit me!!!!!!!!" but I didn't.

[foschatt]

There hasn't been a post for awhile. I hope things have gotten better! Is there an update as to how things have been?

[Natalplum]

If someone came screaming and flailing at me full force I'd bite them to.

[sharronhurlbut]

The problem is that its always the dogs fault..and legally, it can cost you big.
Not fair, but that is the way our system is set up.
SIGH!

[Capt_Jack_our_Basenji]

Trust me I DONT want to scare you but this Literally JUST happened to me! My Neighbor "came over JUST to say goodbye to us" and we were sitting on our back porch taking a break from the move and Jack was with us on a lead, the neighbor came out of nowhere around the corner and scared the crap out of Jack and got bit. They immediatly called 911!!!!!!!!! NO IDEA WHY!!! but the cops showed up and asked to see jack and of course Jack bit the officer too...Housing (navy) gave us a warning about eviction bacuse I have a dangerous animal, the Cop tried to get money from my renter insurance for the bite, and I tried to find Jack a new home and NO ONE would take him not even BRAT so I had to put him down...(not JUST bc of the bites he also had cancer) I really dont understand why we sould be in trouble when somone come into our yard and gets bit, but did you know that (this is what the officer told me) if somone breaks into your home and gets bit, its the dogs fault!!! I thinks its bologna...I hope it works out for you!!! Good luck!!

[lvoss]

If someone breaks into your home and gets bit, it will depend on your state laws as to whether you can be held liable. In the state of California the law is a person can not seek damages for any injury obtained while committing an illegal act. This law was passed because burglars were suing homeowners for being injured while robbing their homes.

[sharronhurlbut]

Sadly, mostly, the dog is at fault, even if common sense would say "no".
So, for folks who have dogs will "issues" and I have one.
YOU need to set it up for the dog to be safe.
Even if you make folks talk to you outside the fence so the dogs will not be an issue, or if you need to put up babygates and keep the dogs from guests.
Attractive nucience *sp* like having a swimming pool or such.
Its up to you to keep the dog from being BAD...

[tanza]

Sadly, mostly, the dog is at fault, even if common sense would say "no".
So, for folks who have dogs will "issues" and I have one.
YOU need to set it up for the dog to be safe.
Even if you make folks talk to you outside the fence so the dogs will not be an issue, or if you need to put up babygates and keep the dogs from guests.
Attractive nucience *sp* like having a swimming pool or such.
Its up to you to keep the dog from being BAD...

Exactly right with that... my OJ and Maggii (rest her soul) did not like children... no way, no how... and we made sure that there was never an opportunity that they would have the opportunity to "tell" them that.... if people came to the house... they were introduced.. but then OJ and Maggii were both put in their crates.. out of harms way... they were happy... the kids were happy with Mickii and Kristii.... of course we have 10 ft privacy fences in the yard.. so no one could come into the yard...

[Shelby]

This thread makes me realize I need to be more careful with Shelby. I live in an apartment complex with a fair amount of children. Granted, most of the kids I've observed here are extremely well behaved. I walk Shelby a lot, and she is an attraction for them. If they come to pet her, I always warn that she might jump on them. She usually does nothing more than lick them to death! When she plays with Travis and I she tends to nip though. (She's getting much better at this). She has never nipped a child, but I guess it's possible and someone could get hurt without Shelby being aggressive in any way. Never thought of it.

Also,
When I lived at home with my parents we took in a German Wire Hair. He was most definitely a guard dog. Actually, he scared me at first. He would block my way and growl at me. Then one day my uncle suggested I speak to him in a lower voice whenever I encountered him. I tried it and it worked!! it was really funny to hear me try to talk like a man, but that's besides the point. Fudge (the dog's name) and I became inseperable after that. He slept with me every night along with our English Setter. I loooooooved him. Then one day my neighbor (who is over every day and knew Fudge well) was getting our mail when we were on vacation and helping with the dogs. We were gone for two days. Fudge always treated her great, but the one day she was over, he bite her. Put a big puncture wound in her arm. A week later, I moved to California. My parents said they sent him down to N. Carolina on my uncles farm, but in reality they put him to sleep. I was devistated. My neighbor was devistated. I think it was too rash of my parents but they were worried something worse would happen. I'm still very sad about the situation to this day. In hinds site, my parents should have been more respectful of his guard dog ways and not allowed our neighbor over without a family member around he was comfortable with.

[NullaBasenji]

That sounds terrible. What ended up happening?

[ComicDom1]

The problem is that I live in a trailer park- I own my trailer, but I don't own the land it sits on. So technically it wasn't "my" yard since I don't own it. The cop said that even if the kid was in my house, unless the dog is on a 6ft or smaller leash, I am at fault. I think it's crap, and I'm looking up all the laws to see if I can figure something out.

I'm thinking that if they do decide to sue, that I can come back with something about child endangerment or something. The kid that was bit is no older than 5, and is always running around on his own. Before he came in my yard, he was jumping up and down in a tree, breaking branches off.

Normally if your dog is leashed no matter what the length you have done the right thing. As others have said check the animal control laws in your area and find out where you stand.

What you might be able to do is claim this child was provoking your pet, and that this was not the first time. Clearly if the hair stood up on the back of your animal he was in fear and reacted normally.

If a 5 years old is running around constantly unsupervised I would think that is a matter for Child services and you might want to alert them. I certainly would not let any police officer play lawyer and quote me the law. There is a reason they are cops and not attorneys.

I wish I had paid closer attention to the date at the beginning of this post. I know feel somewhat silly for posting in regard to it.

Jason

[ComicDom1]

Once I showed a neighbor my "years of the American Basenji" books as I was researching a pedigree (long before online info) Her comment was - geez could we have that for husbands - with a list of things like - does windows etc.

I work in the schools and I have to say the parents that I see that are off the charts are so far off the charts that they should have not reproduced. They far overshadow the majority that are good and responsible. There just seems to be a sense of entitlement that I don't remember when I was a child.

"I'm entitled to whatever I want - and I can do what I want - there should be no consequences but someone better save me if I screw up."

I saw the same thing when I was teaching in Chicago. Children can misbehave, throw things at teachers, staff, or others and get away with it. You used to be able to count on your principal to deal with behavior problems but those days are long gone. If you call a parent, many times you are not deal with in a nice way. On Parent Teacher night at least in the public school I was in, most parents never attend. Many times you are lucky if a child comes to school in clean clothes or food in their stomachs. At the school I taught at there were many kids on free lunch and some of free breakfast as well. Some of the kids would take home any food they could get for later or for others in their families. It was not a great situation.

On top of this the behavior problems have made it almost impossible to teach at times. I have seen many kids passed through a grade just so the teacher could get rid of them and not have to deal with that child the next year.

Its not surprising to me that these kids are running about unsupervised at a very young age. Unfortunately the rest of society suffers because of irresponsible people. The gangs have become the family and the younger kids are put up to more and more violent crimes because in many states the penalties for a minor are seen as insignificant.

Jason