strip test positive for my boy!!

[tewwi22]

i am a bit in a panic - i (because of this forum) have been strip testing my guys for the past number of months - today my boy tested positive - has anyone had that happen and then it go away? i am going home at lunch to test again and will test one more time tomorrow morning - i guess if they are all positive i should take him to the vet???? help - in a panic!

[lvoss]

Sometimes when caught early the dog will spill intermittently so will test positive, then negative, then positive but usually will begin to spill consistently at some point. If your boy tested positive, even once, then the next step is to find a vet who can run blood gases so you can confirm it is Fanconi Syndrome and get your boy started on the Protocol. http://www.basenji.org/fanconiprotocol2003.pdf

[tanza]

It is very, very important that you now have blood gases done... as Lisa said it is very often that very early on they might spill one and not the next two.. but bottom line is that they spilled. Please "rush" to find a vet that does blood gases, take the protocol to your Vet and if there are any question, you and/or your Vet can contact Dr. Gonto also. There is also a Fanconi list that you can join that is only for people with affected dogs... Stormie's Mom can help you there... I am pretty sure she is on there...

Also be sure that you let your breeder know....

[tewwi22]

oh boy this stinks - i will call my vet at lunch time then - i actually got him from BRAT so i am not sure - so even if he tests negative you still think i should take him as long as i know the strips are good - i just got them and used them for a couple of months so they should be

[tewwi22]

and not that i care - but how expensive should it be to run the gasess? want to make sure my vet is in the ball park

[tewwi22]

also is it going to hurt him? is it a blood test?? or ???

[tanza]

also is it going to hurt him? is it a blood test?? or ???

Even if he tests negative... due to the fact that he tested once positive and you know the strips are good, you need to have the blood gases done... and yes it is a blood test... price varies... so I can't really say... however most Vets offices to not usually have a blood gases machine... and usually have to refer you out to a clinic that has one. And you need to be sure your Vet understands about Fanconi and DO NOT let him/her say that blood gases are not necessary...

Good luck and the good news is that you have caught it early... again to... remember, Dr. Gonto is always available to talk to you and/or your Vet.

[tewwi22]

heard back from my vet that says he wouldn't jump to the gas test yet that he want me to bring him in for first some general blood work and an exam before we jump to the blood gases - does that make sense - i feel like i am at the mercy of the doctor and don't want to do anything wrong for the guy

[lvoss]

If the strips were good and he tested positive for sugar even once, then the next step is blood gases. The only thing that your doctor can rule out with another blood test is diabetes. The quicker you can have the blood gases run and your boy started on the Protocol the better for his kidney function. If you have any questions, please contact Dr Gonto, he can talk to your vet about why it is so essential to get the blood gases run.

[Quercus]

heard back from my vet that says he wouldn't jump to the gas test yet that he want me to bring him in for first some general blood work and an exam before we jump to the blood gases - does that make sense - i feel like i am at the mercy of the doctor and don't want to do anything wrong for the guy

Nope...you need to run a blood gas ASAP to find out what his levels are. If your vet is offended by that suggestion, you may need to look into another vet. Lots of vets have little or no experience with Fanconi....some are unwilling to take advice from a bunch of non-vets. But really, this is the next step.

[Quercus]

Oh, and try not to panic. Lots of dogs do wonderfully on Dr. Gonto's protocol for a long, long time. Hugs to you and your boy :)

[tanza]

heard back from my vet that says he wouldn't jump to the gas test yet that he want me to bring him in for first some general blood work and an exam before we jump to the blood gases - does that make sense - i feel like i am at the mercy of the doctor and don't want to do anything wrong for the guy

You are NOT at the mercy... no that doesn't make sense... if your Vet is not agreeable to the blood gases, you need to find another Vet.. remember it is your dog, your money... your call. Blood Gases are a blood test and they are very important... Again, is you Vet familar with Fanconi? Is he/she willing to call and talk to Dr. Gonto?

[tanza]

heard back from my vet that says he wouldn't jump to the gas test yet that he want me to bring him in for first some general blood work and an exam before we jump to the blood gases - does that make sense - i feel like i am at the mercy of the doctor and don't want to do anything wrong for the guy

Also a little story for you and others about Vets... A very good friend's Basenji started spilling. She called me and I said the same, blood gases... she then talked to her Vet and was "read" the riot act on how "she" was the Vet, What good are blood gases, I never heard of the Protocol" and my friend called me in tears.... wanting to know what to do... I told her she can do one of two things, get a new Vet or ask her Vet to call Dr. Gonto and talk to him about Fanconi and the reason that Blood gases are so very necessary... Her Vet (much to the Vet's credited) called Dr. Gonto, she then called my friend and said "So, lets get those blood gases scheduled and done asap!"

[red and white furever]

When Stormie began spilling sugar, he also was intermittent. In the afternoon it showed up, that evening, it was slight, the next morning almost nothing - but he has Fanconi. Luckily I have found an incredible vet who scheduled the blood gas tests right away.
The good news out of all this is that you've caught it early! Kudos to you for strip testing!!!! And the earlier you catch it, the less damage is done and the better the outlook for the dog.
I agree with everyone so far, if your vet is unwilling to listen to you, find a new one who will...many (((((hugs)))) to you and your furkid!!!
Lorraine and Stormie

[red and white furever]

I forgot to mention in my previous post - the blood gas tests themselves aren't very expensive. My vet clinic charges $45. Initially blood work will also be done to determine other values (ie: potassium etc.). That gets a little more pricey, but it's not done as often as blood gas tests are.
More ((((hugs)))))

[tewwi22]

i go tomorrow at 945 - i will insist on the test and that he call dr gonto - its been a very hard year for me and my bs have been the only thing that has gotten me through and am having a hard time with this - thanks for the words

[red and white furever]

Tewwi22, I understand how scary and overwhelming this feels for you right now. I think I was in some stage of crying over Stormie's spilling sugar/diagnosis for a solid week. I promise you that it's not going to be as bad as you think it will - it changes your life much more than it changes your b's. I don't even think Stormie realizes he's "sick" - he just gets lots of treat pills everyday and trust me, that grubby guts is OK as long as there's food involved! *grin*. More hugs for you, because I know it sucks and it's scary, but it's managable - you and your furkid are going to be just fine. (((hugs)))

[tanza]

Yes, it is scary, but remember the good news is that you found out early... and take a copy of the protocol with you.... we are all here for you.... let us know how you make out with your Vet....

[tewwi22]

i read the protocol and it does say "once a working diagnosis has been made on the baseis of a positive urineurine glucose in the absense of elveated blood glucose" then to run the venous blood gas panel - i am hoping that is why my vet says to run the other blood test first but i am going to insist on the test when i get there or to have him tell me where i can get it done because he can't do it there - will call some animal hospitals -

[tanza]

i read the protocol and it does say "once a working diagnosis has been made on the baseis of a positive urineurine glucose in the absense of elveated blood glucose" then to run the venous blood gas panel - i am hoping that is why my vet says to run the other blood test first but i am going to insist on the test when i get there or to have him tell me where i can get it done because he can't do it there - will call some animal hospitals -

By the time he takes blood within a couple of hours he will have the results... chances of blood glucose being elevated is pretty slim, IMO... and you can still call and get an appointment set up. Does your Vet know about Fanconi and already have a copy of the protocol? And I would (if it were me) just start calling around to different larger clinics to see who has a blood gas machine.... and make an appointment. And Dr. Gonto will be more then happy to discuss the results and help develop the beginning treatment. Know however that you will most likely be doing blood gases every 6 months (I think that is correct) to see if the meds are correct.....

[tewwi22]

ok will start calling today - do you know how the meds impact the dog? ie will he be back to normal or still constantly drinking and needing to go out?

[tanza]

ok will start calling today - do you know how the meds impact the dog? ie will he be back to normal or still constantly drinking and needing to go out?

Depends on the dog and the degree of Fanconi at any given point... is he doing that now? Typically when they first start spilling that is what you see the sugar in the urine... usually not much change in drinking or potty habits...

[tewwi22]

vet says unlike fanconi his blood sugar is off the chart and that his will wait for the all the test results but that he is most likely diabetic - he said his blood sugar was 400 and should be below 120 - do you know anything about diabetic basenjis?

[tanza]

vet says unlike fanconi his blood sugar is off the chart and that his will wait for the all the test results but that he is most likely diabetic - he said his blood sugar was 400 and should be below 120 - do you know anything about diabetic basenjis?

I do not, but I have heard of a few dogs that are diabetic.... And that would mean that you will have to give shots daily... if this is the case... It is not very often that you will find a Basenji that is diabetic.... be interesting to see what the rest of the blood work shows along with like his liver and kidney values.... Thanks for the update....

[MacPack]

We had a diabetic basenji some years ago. She had lost weight and then suddenly got very sick, spilled sugar, and had elevated blood glucose. We started out with one insulin shot everymorning, she protested at first but I got very quick and pretty soon she hardly noticed. Back then, my vet treated by symptoms...if she started drinking a lot, I increased the insulin. Periodically we would check her blood sugar every 2 hours throughout a day to see how efffective the insulin was. After a couple of years we went to 2 shots a day, still not a big issue. She was about 12 when we started, so I don't know how she might have done if she had been younger, but we got another couple of great years for her before she lost sight and then got a bit senile at about 15.

That was about 12 years ago, treatments may have improved a lot since then. And there are great 'low carb' foods like EVO that should help a lot! We have freinds whose Great Dane became diabetic, very nearly died, and she started feeding him cooked ground beef, no grains at all, and he improved and lived another couple of years, I think he was about 12 when he died and had been diabetic for several years. Diabetes treatment in humans has improved a lot over the years, I'm sure it is the same for dogs. I would get him on a low-carb food right away, and see if that helps.

Good luck, hopefully with good diet control and exercise, he will do very well.

Anne in Tampa

[tewwi22]

thank you so much for the info!! i will start on Evo and low carb right away

[MacPack]

Switch over gradually, it is very rich and mine took a couple of weeks of gradually adding more EVO and less regular food, otherwise....diarrhea! Actually mine (not diabetic) still eat 1/4 Innova mixed with 3/4 EVO to keep their tummies in good shape. And of course talk to your vet! I am a human nurse, not a CVT, but I know lowering the carbs will bring down the blood sugar a good bit in any species. That said, food changes should generally be gradual. Best of luck with your boy.

Anne

[tewwi22]

Anne - thanks - i keep reading info on line and it is making me a bit more nervous re complicaitons - i am hoping i caught it early and that with good treatment he will be find - no blindness etc

[tanza]

Anne - thanks - i keep reading info on line and it is making me a bit more nervous re complicaitons - i am hoping i caught it early and that with good treatment he will be find - no blindness etc

And let us know what the final word from your Vet is on him....

[dmcarty]

In the old days - before Gontos and before Marker the rule of thumb was if the strip turned - check the blood for sugar (diabetes) if protein in urine and not in blood - fanconis. We've come a long way since then - with blood gases etc. I guess I would compromise - I would check the blood, get a panel for BUN (liver values etc) and the blood gas. That way you cover fanconi, diabeties and Cushings.

[tanza]

In the old days - before Gontos and before Marker the rule of thumb was if the strip turned - check the blood for sugar (diabetes) if protein in urine and not in blood - fanconis. We've come a long way since then - with blood gases etc. I guess I would compromise - I would check the blood, get a panel for BUN (liver values etc) and the blood gas. That way you cover fanconi, diabeties and Cushings.

Yes, I would to... just to be sure... it is worth the cost vs peace of mind....

Also wondering, did your Vet tell you what the blood work show for liver and kidney values? Up/down??

[tewwi22]

i asked and they said all the other tests and there were plenty were in the normal range - i will ask again re the liver and kidney values - so since yesterday he is on 5 cc of insulin humulin N 5 cc and diet food - he seems okay - he sleeps just like my other healthy b and has his appetite and despite the very cold weather here in NJ he was happy to go for a walk and he usually HATES the cold - any thing else i should be asking about ? i also bought ketone strips to start testing him on that

[tanza]

I think that it is alway good to have a copy of blood work, you never know when you might be in a emerency situation and it is good to have that information with you... and it does "belong" to you so there should be no reason not to give you a copy of the blood work...
What kind of diet food? and how is he for you to give shots?

[tewwi22]

good idea - i will ask for a copy and so far he is fine with the shots -
diet food is purina OM - its very light - my issue now is finding a kennel that will take him and treat him correctly
i can probably board him at the vet and pray then that they take my girl who is fine - they hate being apart - i travel once in a blue moon for work - know any good bergen county NJ kennels??

[tanza]

good idea - i will ask for a copy and so far he is fine with the shots -
diet food is purina OM - its very light - my issue now is finding a kennel that will take him and treat him correctly
i can probably board him at the vet and pray then that they take my girl who is fine - they hate being apart - i travel once in a blue moon for work - know any good bergen county NJ kennels??

I don't, sorry... maybe someone else on the list does... any chance you could get a dog sitter that comes to the house? Many times they are Vet Techs....

[tewwi22]

i have to search around - will ask vets in the area but this is now my challenge - if anyone has any ideas i would be very grateful

[MacPack]

I know the complications are very firghtening, but if you can get the sugar under reasonable control, the symptoms and complications are usually not too bad. And while our worst fear was our dog going blind, when she did, we hardly noticed! Her other senses worked so well no one ever knew she was blind. I will cross fingers that you find a workable therapy that keeps him healthy and happy for a good long time!

Anne n Tampa

[tewwi22]

Anne - thanks - when you had to go away did you kennel her? that now is my worry - it's just me and the two dogs and i would really want to make sure he was left in reliable hands - and preferably boths bs are together! they've never been apart for more than a few hours

[MaxBooBooBear]

The vets I have gone to over the years always provided kenneling services for their clients (sick or healthy). I had two dogs for years (one B, one not) who couldn't be separated, and the vets were always understanding of this and would kennel both dogs either together (in a larger run) or side by side if only smaller pens were available. When Pepper needed IV fluids for her kidneys for a week one time, Pepper was kenneled, and I would drop Max off in the a.m. before work, and pick him up in the p.m. so that he could have company (he was the one who suffered from separation anxiety. The vet was happy to accommodate this.

[MacPack]

My husband and I never took a vacation together then, so one of us was always at home with the dogs. We still either take them with us, or one of us stays home. I like to travel, my husband doesn't, so it works for us! I like the suggestion that they be kenneled together at the veets. Another option would be a pet sitter that is able to give the medical care, or see if one of the vet techs "moonlights" and could drop by and give medication as needed, with a pet sitter staying with them. There are options, you just have to look "outside the box".
Anne in Tampa

[tewwi22]

right now it's just me and that's part of the issue - actually my two b's were "inherited" from my ex - but i wasn't about to let them be put up for adoption when he left so after 6 years they are mine now - and there isn't anything i wouldn't do for them - i will ask around at animal hospitals and see what i can do - thanks

[lvoss]

There are several petsitting organizations on the web. Here are two that offer search functions and information about interviewing petsitters.

National Association of Professional Petsitters
http://www.petsitters.org/index.cfm?section=Find&content=findsitter
http://www.petsitters.org/index.cfm?section=PetOwners

Pet Sitters International
http://www.petsit.com/locate/
http://www.petsit.com/owners/

[tewwi22]

thanks - it's been tough - the boy HATES his insulin shots!!! gotta figure this one out!

[MacPack]

My Isis hated them too, at first, Then we both got better, I got very quick, grab, jab, and gone! I used the area at the neck and shoulders (where you put Advantage) and just pinched up skin, stuck her and injected. I am a nurse, so giving a shot is easy for me, but giving one to a wiggling dog that yelped was hard at first, and I had a human helper. After a few months, I think that area got a bit numb and that helped. You may have to muzzle, then get over him, clamp him between your legs, facing forward, and go for it. Then reward instantly with a bit of chicken or something wonderful. It is a lot harder than having to give pills, but with patience and practice, you will find a way that works for you. Good luck, I am thinking of you,
Anne in Tampa

[tewwi22]

Anne - thanks for the words of encouragement - it has been very hard - and that fact that you are a nurse - ugh for me!!!! right now the last 4 shots haven't been so bad - i have been using abesol and let him lick pure 100% pumpkin that i smear on a plate - the last three times it worked - no flinch not nothing - tonight he yelped but didn't stop licking the plate - i was probably also a little but slower tonight - i wanted to make sure it went in - that is still my worry - whether the needle goes in - i am using a 30 gauge 1/2in needle - so it will get better? it is just me (and my other B) so it's a bit harder to really hold him down and i really hope it doesn't have to get to that cuz that would be oh so stressful for me!! and him i am sure! ugh - so is yours okay with shots now???

thanks - Terri, anzi and deja!

[MacPack]

Isis was our last generation of basenjis, she has been gone for about 6 years, and was 16 when she died.
It sounds like you have a good system! You might ask the vet techs for suggestions on how to give the shot. 30 gauge is a very fine, sharp needle, buy them at your drugstore or Wallmart. Most hospitals (you vet may, but may charge you for 'hazardous waste') have a system for disposing of needles, for diabetic patients to bring them in for disposal. I used to actually put mine in a tin that chocolate came in, sort of ironic.

YOu will get much better with the shots, and he wil yelp sometimes. One quick 'owie' for a longer life, just ignore it, or give him a quick nuzzle, but not a ton of sympathy. Is he getting once a day. or twice? There are so many better insulins now, that cover better.

Keep up the good work! Feel free to e-mail me at home, I often don't come here for weeks at a time.

Anne in Tampa

[tewwi22]

can you send me a private message with your email address - would love to stay in touch -

[massagemom3]

o.k. dumb question..but how do you test the urine. sally squats so low to the ground , and I'm not sure if she would go with me next to her. I could make her wait a long time and see if she would have an accident on the kitchen floor. I hate to do that. But I think she may have this. She is shedding a alot, and is not eating, drinking a tone, and lost weight. She also shakes some times. (I just noticed the shaking yesturday)

[tewwi22]

i use the diastix Bayer urine glucose strips - i just follow my girl and when she squats put it in there and get some urine on the strip - you can try a low pie tin to to catch some - but my girl is okay - i just follow her around

[tewwi22]

has she tested positive for diabetes? all the sympoms you mentioned point to it - get the urine glucose strip and if it's positive take her to the vet and get blood work done - also get the strip for ketones - if that is positive she has way too much sugar and may be getting ketonosis (not sure if i spelled it right) - if her blood glucose is high then she has diabetes and if it's normal then she may have fanconi - get the strip asap - how old is she? - get her to the vet for sure

[tanza]

o.k. dumb question..but how do you test the urine. sally squats so low to the ground , and I'm not sure if she would go with me next to her. I could make her wait a long time and see if she would have an accident on the kitchen floor. I hate to do that. But I think she may have this. She is shedding a alot, and is not eating, drinking a tone, and lost weight. She also shakes some times. (I just noticed the shaking yesturday)

You can also take her to the Vet and they can check the urine for sugar, in fact with what you are describing I would do that asap. Could be something as simple as an UTI or more serious like Fanconi or diabetes. And again I would do this asap with the other things you are describing. How long has she been doing this? not eating, drining a ton???? and losing weight?

As far as strip for Fanconi, if you take her for a walk you should be able to easily get close enough with the test strips (for future uses, again I would be off to the Vet asap)

[tewwi22]

i agree - take her to the vet asap

[massagemom3]

We were told Sally is around 2-2.5 years old. We got her in October, and she was very thin,and shedding. We got her to gain weight,and stop shedding, but recently got her switched to a better food(IAMS) and stopped her V3 because the vet thought she didn't need it with the better food. Now she is really shedding, itching, and lost weight. We put her back on the V3 and are switching back to the old Puppy Chow. (they sent her to us with it from the SPCA)... it takes time to switch. Now she is slowing down on eating and drinks a ton. I am going out the get the strips today. When I took her to the dumb vet ..she didn't think it was diebetes...and didn't test. I am going to look for another vet for other reason...Thanks fro your thoughts..it helps to have an idea of what to do. I really love Sally and want her to be healthy.

[tanza]

We were told Sally is around 2-2.5 years old. We got her in October, and she was very thin,and shedding. We got her to gain weight,and stop shedding, but recently got her switched to a better food(IAMS) and stopped her V3 because the vet thought she didn't need it with the better food. Now she is really shedding, itching, and lost weight. We put her back on the V3 and are switching back to the old Puppy Chow. (they sent her to us with it from the SPCA)... it takes time to switch. Now she is slowing down on eating and drinks a ton. I am going out the get the strips today. When I took her to the dumb vet ..she didn't think it was diebetes...and didn't test. I am going to look for another vet for other reason...Thanks fro your thoughts..it helps to have an idea of what to do. I really love Sally and want her to be healthy.

Both those foods have corn... and that might be the souce of her skin problems... Again, is she a mix? or purebred? Regardless I would find a better quality food without any corn and see it that makes a difference...

And again I would find a Vet asap... and even it your old Vet, didn't think it was this or that, you are the client and can tell them you want the urine checked and bloodwork done...

[massagemom3]

Yes,Sally is a mix. The vet thought the Puppy Chow was "good enough"..I will look for a food without corn. Have you heard of Nutro-Natural choice?

[tewwi22]

can't the vet prescribe some food if need be? or maybe certain home cooked stuff?

[tewwi22]

also let us know what the test strip says

[tanza]

Yes,Sally is a mix. The vet thought the Puppy Chow was "good enough"..I will look for a food without corn. Have you heard of Nutro-Natural choice?

There are many, many foods out there, IMO the best have the fewest things in them... especially any kind of fillers, such as corn, beet pulp, etc...
Nutro-Natural is a decent food, along with Canidae, California Natural, etc... I have used both Canidae and California Natural (Chicken), and am using a mix of EVO and Natural Balance Potato and Duck
Be care sometimes lamb is NOT the best for them...

[tanza]

can't the vet prescribe some food if need be? or maybe certain home cooked stuff?

Since her Vet thought that puppy chow was good enough... would not want to depend on that advise

[lvoss]

If you are looking for a corn free food that can be found at a place like Petco, take a look at Organix or Natural Balance both are corn free and available at Petco.

[massagemom3]

No strip luck yet...hehehehehe
but will keep trying....not only with her pee but her vet...

and food too.... I'll let you know!


But I did find a new collar that will help with her hair loss around her neck!

:)

[tewwi22]

why is lamb sometimes not the best? i have been mixing a little cooked ground lamb in my boys food so he eats it???

[tanza]

why is lamb sometimes not the best? i have been mixing a little cooked ground lamb in my boys food so he eats it???

Many dogs with food allergies, don't do well on lamb..... Many dogs will eat lots of things that are not good for them... However if yours do well with the cooked ground lamb, then that is great

[tewwi22]

so far no issues - they love it! - sometimes veal, beef or lamb! they eat better than i do!!

[tanza]

so far no issues - they love it! - sometimes veal, beef or lamb! they eat better than i do!!

As it should be :D

[tewwi22]

well here's an update on my Anzi boy - he definitely is diabetic - was finally diagnosed on 12/14 - he has lost weight - and looks GREAT now - and his sugar is okay - he gets shots and food twice a day - it's almost just like a human having the disease - there are some complications that can happen like blinding cataracts but so far so good - he HATED his shots at the beginning but is now a brave boy - love him so much!!! if there are any other diabetics b's out there holler -

[tanza]

well here's an update on my Anzi boy - he definitely is diabetic - was finally diagnosed on 12/14 - he has lost weight - and looks GREAT now - and his sugar is okay - he gets shots and food twice a day - it's almost just like a human having the disease - there are some complications that can happen like blinding cataracts but so far so good - he HATED his shots at the beginning but is now a brave boy - love him so much!!! if there are any other diabetics b's out there holler -

That is great... good for you and him.... glad to hear that he is doing well!

[MacPack]

I am so glad he is doing well! If he is easy to give the shots to, that is huge! And caught early, with good control, maybe, like humans, he won't have too many complications. That said, my old diabetic dog went blind and you would not have ever noticed, she just slowly adapted. I am really so happy for you that Anzi is doing so well.

Anne in Tampa

[tewwi22]

I am so glad he is doing well! If he is easy to give the shots to, that is huge! And caught early, with good control, maybe, like humans, he won't have too many complications. That said, my old diabetic dog went blind and you would not have ever noticed, she just slowly adapted. I am really so happy for you that Anzi is doing so well.

Anne in Tampa


it is so HUGE - he was NOT at first and it was a battle and you would have thought i belonged in a loony bin!!! but he's awesome now!!! so far no cataracts - eye specialist says just ever so slight of one but that he woould be surprised if a diabetic dog didn't have ANY - so = so far so good!!! i bring him to the eye specialist about every 3 or 4 months now but his eyes look clear and he sees the tiniest of spots on the floor that he thinks is food so i know he is seeing fine!!!