our baby might be a daddy soon!

[lanemichelleandolimar]

around 20 days ago, our boy olimar had intercoruse with our roommates dog (unplanned), meli the jack russell. my girlfriend and i were playing with her today and discovered that her nipples are puffy, her stomach is lumpy, shes been kinda moody, and she's really turned down her hyperness. our friends and family that checked her out says she looks pregnant. but we'd like to find out by the vet if she is. and if she is we decided not to do an abortion or anything. we're gonna keep one and sell/give away the rest to responisble owners. so olimar might be a daddy :D. and that means i'm gonna be a grandpa :|......... i'm to young for this!

[sharronhurlbut]

Sorry, but I can't be happy about this.
There are way too many puppies out there that need homes.

Are you going to take any steps to keep this from happening in the future?

[lanemichelleandolimar]

..............

[DiegosMom]

I would suggest that you search this forum for information about responsible breeding and breeders.. there is a lot of information on here. I wouldn't know from experience but it's a lot of hard work, time, and money to breed responsibly, along with having the right dogs. I just went back and read some old posts and see you got him at a pet store.. I'm sure others will chime in, but you should really consider getting him nuetered.. thats really the best thing you can do for the breed..

[sharronhurlbut]

Ok, lets say you have 6 puppies and keep 1.
re home 5.
What is to say that the folks who get them won't let them breed as well?
I am not only worried about this first litter, but the litters they make, and what will prevent you dog from having more mixed puppies?
I do rescue, I don't breed, or show, just rescue and that makes me want to ask the hard questions to you.
If you have any questions as to how many dogs are unwanted, or wanted as puppies and then dumped, then please, go to your local shelter and just do a walk through.
I hope you will decide to fix your basenji and make sure this doesn't happen again.
Its the responsible thing to do.
I know you don't know me, so hopefully, others on this list can share their
rescue/breeding ethics with you.

[mauigirl]

Knowing that you had an intact female and male dog in the same house were you taking steps to prevent this from happening? Just curious...

[lvoss]

Shelters are full of homeless animals who came into this world much like this litter if Meli is truly pregnant have will enter it. The owners of the parents did not spay/neuter and thought it "wouldn't happen to them". Most of the owners probably told their friends and relatives exactly what you have said here, "We will keep 1 and find good homes for the others." They may even think that they did just that completely unaware that their "perfect home" dumped the puppy in the shelter at 6 months old when it was teething on every piece of furniture and shoe in the house. Or that "wonderful family" dumped their puppy at 18 months old when it was going through its adolescent testing everyone phase.

Please microchip the litter so that if they do turn up in the shelter, the shelter will have a contact number so you don't add to the homeless animal problem. Make sure the puppies are spay/neutered so that they do not perpetuate the cycle of pet over population.

Do research on inherited diseases in basenjis and get your boy health tested for hips, eyes, thyroid, and fanconi marker test. What does Olimar have to offer the breed? What are your goals as a breeder? How will you contribute to the basenji community? to the rescue community? These are all questions you should consider before breeding. If you have trouble answering these questions then please consider neutering your boy.

[lanemichelleandolimar]

now, now....lets not get all pissy here sharron. who are you to assume that we are owners that are unfit and uncaring towards pups. This forum was made to show how happy we are that puppies are on their way, and not so that you could start bickering at us about other peoples mistakes. We know there are many unfit owners in the world but we're not them so don't badger us about it. I don't know you and you don't know me; in the future i'd appreciate it if you kept all these comments of yours to yourself.

...Unlike your much more vast and harsher lands of America, here in hawaii it is small which in return makes it almost impossible for dogs to be out on the streets. yes there are strays but you almost never see one; again due to our small islands. and those that are stray are picked up faster than you can blink. and when they are in "hawaii" humane society almost all of them are adopted within a few days. and how do i know this you ask? well thats because my boyfriend and i try to go to the humane society every week and see these dogs getting adopted one by one. Its something that has become religious for us to do once every week. and we never see the same dogs twice. This is due to the fact that here in hawaii, we don't care about full breed dogs. just like our diverse ethnicities on the island, our dogs are also mixed with different breeds. to us, dogs are dogs, we love them mixed breeds just the same. We don't really care about how full breed they are. and if you were to come to hawaii you'd see just how many mixed dogs there are on our islands. and just curious, why is everyone on the mainland hating on mixed dogs? in my opinion, they are the cutest.

...as for our liter, jack russells have anywhere from 4 to 8 pups. Hawaiian families are quite big so the majority of our dogs are going to both my boyfriends side and mine. and we'll also be keeping one ourselves. If there are any left, (which i doubt there will be) we'll be having interviews with the prospective owners of our basenjacks.

meli will be getting her tubes tied, but we intend on keeping olimar the way as God intended. since meli will be getting her tubes tied i don't see why it'll be neccessarry to cut his testes. and cutting off his manlyhood in my opinion is not the responsible thing to do, what is responsible is to watch your dog and make sure he/she doesn't mate with another dog. I can see that we made a mistake by not watching him but we're taking full responsibility at making sure these pups are healthy, happy and in the right homes.

[tanza]

I sure hope that you get your boy neutered so there are no more accidents.. and like already said, you spay/neuter the puppies before you place them. Puppies can be spayed/neutered at 10wks.... It is really in your boys best interest to have him neutered....

[Andrew]

While I agree spay/neuter is the most responsible thing to do, and this may not have been the best course of events... could we back off maybe a little tiny bit?
You seem excited & I am a little bit happy for you. Although this is not ideal, this is not a "let's throw two dogs together & see what happens & how much money we can get for it" situation. A mistake may have been made in not choosing to spay/neuter these dogs, but seems to me like the owner is trying to do the right thing by them.
I'm sure after you have cleaned up after the pups for a few weeks, you will be in a hurry to make sure you get olimar neutered & not have this accident happen again, but in the meantime no need to get upset by the careless words of others. When our teenage daughters get pregnant by accident (no I'm not comparing humans to dogs), we don't berate them... we give them love & support to help them get through it & education to help them prevent it from happening again.

[tanza]

Really there are many health concerns that male dogs have that you should consider neutering him.... Cancer of the testicles, prostrate cancer and other prostrate problems... besides the fact that if he is not going to be used why would you want to leave him in tact? All he needs is to have one other bitch in the neighborhood come in season and he will find a way to get to it...and breed it....and if it comes in season, they know....
And to say that neutering a dog is like cutting off your manhood?.... that has to be the dumbest reason I have heard for not neutering a dog.....

[lanemichelleandolimar]

Shelters are full of homeless animals who came into this world much like this litter if Meli is truly pregnant have will enter it. The owners of the parents did not spay/neuter and thought it "wouldn't happen to them". Most of the owners probably told their friends and relatives exactly what you have said here, "We will keep 1 and find good homes for the others." They may even think that they did just that completely unaware that their "perfect home" dumped the puppy in the shelter at 6 months old when it was teething on every piece of furniture and shoe in the house. Or that "wonderful family" dumped their puppy at 18 months old when it was going through its adolescent testing everyone phase.

Please microchip the litter so that if they do turn up in the shelter, the shelter will have a contact number so you don't add to the homeless animal problem. Make sure the puppies are spay/neutered so that they do not perpetuate the cycle of pet over population.

Do research on inherited diseases in basenjis and get your boy health tested for hips, eyes, thyroid, and fanconi marker test. What does Olimar have to offer the breed? What are your goals as a breeder? How will you contribute to the basenji community? to the rescue community? These are all questions you should consider before breeding. If you have trouble answering these questions then please consider neutering your boy.


thankyou for your input. i appreciate the way you stated this a lot better than some have. we know all of this and our uncle is a breeder and my boyfriend really wants to be one as well. we were already gonna do the chip and we've tested olimar for everything and it was all negative. as for meli she is clear and we've already set up a visit for the vet tomorrow...

...some people seem to think that we are unfit and are a couple of young adults that know nothing about these things. .
my boyfriend posted this to have a postive feedback, being that my family and us are very excited to see just how cute these basenjacks are gonna turn out. we didn't expect everyone to be hating on us so much. and as i stated before, our pups are most likly gonna be with our family and friends.

michelle

[lanemichelleandolimar]

Really there are many health concerns that male dogs have that you should consider neutering him.... Cancer of the testicles, prostrate cancer and other prostrate problems... besides the fact that if he is not going to be used why would you want to leave him in tact? All he needs is to have one other bitch in the neighborhood come in season and he will find a way to get to it...and breed it....and if it comes in season, they know....
And to say that neutering a dog is like cutting off your manhood?.... that has to be the dumbest reason I have heard for not neutering a dog.....


he stays in the house...what's he gonna do? break through the walls to get to the new in season bitch? ha yeah aren't you intelligent.

[lanemichelleandolimar]

Knowing that you had an intact female and male dog in the same house were you taking steps to prevent this from happening? Just curious...

yes they were seperated...but one day she slipped out of my sisters room.
I wasn't home. my sister wasn't watching them

[tanza]

he stays in the house...what's he gonna do? break through the walls to get to the new in season bitch? ha yeah aren't you intelligent.

You would be surprised what they can do... I have seen dogs go through windows, eat doors, just to name a few... the point is, if there is a bitch in season and any place close to him... if there is a will there is a way....

[lanemichelleandolimar]

While I agree spay/neuter is the most responsible thing to do, and this may not have been the best course of events... could we back off maybe a little tiny bit?
You seem excited & I am a little bit happy for you. Although this is not ideal, this is not a "let's throw two dogs together & see what happens & how much money we can get for it" situation. A mistake may have been made in not choosing to spay/neuter these dogs, but seems to me like the owner is trying to do the right thing by them.
I'm sure after you have cleaned up after the pups for a few weeks, you will be in a hurry to make sure you get olimar neutered & not have this accident happen again, but in the meantime no need to get upset by the careless words of others. When our teenage daughters get pregnant by accident (no I'm not comparing humans to dogs), we don't berate them... we give them love & support to help them get through it & education to help them prevent it from happening again.



thankyou. its nice to know that someone is not badgering us about something we didn't intentionally do. if we were doing it for money than we would be selling them, but instead they are going to our family and friends.
thanks for your kind words. i know i shouldn't have gotten upset but everyone kept attacking. as far as him being neutered. we were gonna at first but my family as well as us wanted a little basenji family. we sort of fell in love with this breed. all of them would be staying with us and both of our families are dog lovers. thats what we meant by breeding him. we just wanted to have him breed one liter just once for us.

thankyou
michelle

[tanza]

thankyou. its nice to know that someone is not badgering us about something we didn't intentionally do. if we were doing it for money than we would be selling them, but instead they are going to our family and friends.
thanks for your kind words. i know i shouldn't have gotten upset but everyone kept attacking. as far as him being neutered. we were gonna at first but my family as well as us wanted a little basenji family. we sort of fell in love with this breed. all of them would be staying with us and both of our families are dog lovers. thats what we meant by breeding him. we just wanted to have him breed one liter just once for us.

thankyou
michelle

Hopefully before you do breed him... you can answer the questions that lvoss posed to you... and also do the health testing. Certainly is easier now for Fanconi that the test is available by using cheek swabs...

[Andrew]

thankyou. its nice to know that someone is not badgering us about something we didn't intentionally do. if we were doing it for money than we would be selling them, but instead they are going to our family and friends.
thanks for your kind words. i know i shouldn't have gotten upset but everyone kept attacking. as far as him being neutered. we were gonna at first but my family as well as us wanted a little basenji family. we sort of fell in love with this breed. all of them would be staying with us and both of our families are dog lovers. thats what we meant by breeding him. we just wanted to have him breed one liter just once for us.

thankyou
michelle

We all have to grow up at some point; as a couple of young kids, we have faced a few problems as well. Most assume young=irresponsible. While we may make more mistakes & have a little more learning to do, even the dumbest kids can make good dog owners with the right intentions & eagerness to learn. We turned to this forum to learn so we can become amazing dog owners, and for the most part it is a great resource. A few badly placed words in a medium in which tone & meaning do not always get conveyed properly, words sometimes might seem a bit more harsh than intended (it has taken me months of surfing this forum to figure this out!)
I think what has gotten you so much negativity are the phrases you are using... for instance phrases like "we just want to see one litter" and "it takes away his manhood" are key bullets in the "pro spay/neuter pamphlets"... They are instant "we're irresponsible!!" flags (not saying you are; just trying to explain why people were so quick to be upset).
Honestly, every single person who has responded thus far has a lot of knowledge to share & a world of good intentions, but often times they come across the wrong way.
Do not think you are not welcome & people won't oooh and ahh when you post puppy pictures... they are just very passionate about dogs!

[lvoss]

he stays in the house...what's he gonna do? break through the walls to get to the new in season bitch? ha yeah aren't you intelligent.
You may say that in jest, but I do know people whose basenjis have done just that. Unfortunately, the computer that I had pictures of the damage to the walls crashed and the data was unrecoverable but it has happened.

[lvoss]

thankyou for your input. i appreciate the way you stated this a lot better than some have. we know all of this and our uncle is a breeder and my boyfriend really wants to be one as well. we were already gonna do the chip and we've tested olimar for everything and it was all negative. as for meli she is clear and we've already set up a visit for the vet tomorrow...


If I am doing the math correctly, you got Olimar in July at 3 months old, so that makes him only 5-6 months old right now? If this is correct, there is no way that you could have had him tested for all 4 of the inherited disorders that I listed, http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/brdreqs.html?breed=BJ

When the tests have been done their results are recorded in the OFA database which is searchable so all results can be verified. Here is a link to the OFA record of a dog with all 4 of these tests, http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1328429#animal You can see that they are given a CHIC designation, as having performed and made open the results of these 4 tests.

Again, I urge that you please learn about the inherited disorders in basenjis, http://www.basenji.org/PUBLIC/HealthInfo.htm. Learn about the importance of vertical pedigrees and having well documented health histories in order to prevent these genetic disorders, http://www.offa.org/hovanart.pdf

[lanemichelleandolimar]

If I am doing the math correctly, you got Olimar in July at 3 months old, so that makes him only 5-6 months old right now? If this is correct, there is no way that you could have had him tested for all 4 of the inherited disorders that I listed, http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/brdreqs.html?breed=BJ

When the tests have been done their results are recorded in the OFA database which is searchable so all results can be verified. Here is a link to the OFA record of a dog with all 4 of these tests, http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1328429#animal You can see that they are given a CHIC designation, as having performed and made open the results of these 4 tests.

Again, I urge that you please learn about the inherited disorders in basenjis, http://www.basenji.org/PUBLIC/HealthInfo.htm. Learn about the importance of vertical pedigrees and having well documented health histories in order to prevent these genetic disorders, http://www.offa.org/hovanart.pdf

and again i have read up about basenjis before we got olimar. we've already got our tests back for his fanconis so idk if my vet doesn't know anything or not so you be the judge. i don't need to be lectured things that i've read over and over. all this post was about was how we're gonna have puppies...
not killing them, not abusing them, not doing anything but be excited, caring, and wanting people to connect with that loves animals as well.

this is the last time i'm gonna post something positive on this forums. all i was looking for was some fun and perhaps breeding stories with others. i guess that bashing someone is a lot better than being happy and encouraging. we love basenjis right? so why can't we be happy that theres more. with out breeding we wouldn't have any. and don't attack me about pound dogs, cause we're not letting it happen.

and so what if they're mixes? whats wrong with a mixed breed? people mix all the time, why can't different dog breeds do it? just be accepting to our decision and be happy what we're doing for the basenji community. even though they're half, doesn't mean they're not a b. same thing with if a african american and a caucasian have a baby, he still is black, he still is white. it's all the same.

[lanemichelleandolimar]

oh by the way the questions that whats his face posted. i've thought about it. and i'm able to answer them with ease. so thanks for the "positivity." it just seems like you keep bashing cause this is some huge mistake. did we forget that theres something called nature. and we live in it everyday. i love dogs and i think when someone is saying "hey my dog is pregnant" we don't go off saying "why didn't you get it spayed?", "be responsible, its the right thing so it doesn't happen again." if i'm telling you we have good families and friends for the dogs then theres no fret. don't tell me that we're doing a wrong thing or go to my local pound and see whats going on, cause i know whats going on.

i know breeding is gonna cost a lot, and i'm fine with that. i've researched that basenjis can be prone to a lot of illnesses. i read everything so please stop wasting your time typing on reapeat cause i got it the first time i read it in before i got oli. without breeding, you wouldn't have your precious b's today. if your not gonna be supportive and just being "know it all's" then i'd rather you not say anything, cause i heard it all.

thanks.

[Quercus]

<<if your not gonna be supportive and just being "know it all's" then i'd rather you not say anything, cause i heard it all. >>

Well...that's our job. As caretakers and protectors of our breed. We will not ever be supportive of someone who has the attitude you do. So, you will never meet anyone who really loves dogs who says 'oh, you decided not to spay and neuter your pets, and then didn't pay attention when the bitch was in heat, and now want to have a litter to give out to your friends and relatives...that is GREAT' It won't happen. People who love, and care about dogs don't want to see more unplanned breeding.

If you came here looking for support, I guess this isn't the place for that. Maybe you could find an irresponsible backyard breeder forum somewhere.

[wizard]

Lanemichelle - we know nothing about you and so we cannot assess what you do or don't know about dogs, dog breeding, or dog diseases and yes that means we shouldn't judge your actions. But, for someone new to come in to this forum and say "our dogs accidentally had a litter and isn't that great", it rubs A LOT of people the wrong way because of the numerous accidental dogs that have gone to shelters in the end and had to be "put down". If you have done your homework on the two breeds as you now say then fine, we'll help you with whatever questions you have. But just as you expect us to understand your background without giving us that information, understand us and our concern for the basenji breed and all the rescues that have to be taken care of. Do a search on this forum for Iowa and read about a recent situation about breeding that went wrong and you'll understand why we get all uptight. As I say, be as understanding of us as you want us to be of you.

[LiveWWSD]

Lanemichelle- Well good luck over the next bit as you get these pups out. Just a quick question when it comes to the dam. Is she a Jack or a Parson Russel. How old is she? Has she been tested for PRD and had hips checked. I know you said you have studied Basenjis, I just wanted to make sure you have also checked into Russells health problems as they also have a number of geneticaly inheritable issues, some that we have no idea if inheritance occures based on Autosomal Recessive Inheritance or not. This would mean that for many of the disorders in these breeds you may be safe, but there is no guarentee that some disorders would not be passed on.

Again good luck with this, having pups is an extreamly time/resorce consuming process. If you need any further info on Jack/Parsons let me know and I would be happy to point you in the direction of some good info.

[lvoss]

My point was that there is no way that at 6 months old Olimar could have "all" of his tests. One of the tests is not valid until 12 months old and another not valid until 2 years old. If you provide Olimar's registered name, I would be happy to see if his results are in OFA because if they are not then there is a good chance that your vet was unaware of the DNA Marker Test for Fanconi Syndrome. This would not be unusual many vets are unaware unless their clients have printed out the information from http://www.basenjihealth.org

I have frequently posted the names and links to my dogs OFA pages, anyone is welcome to verify that I do the testing on my dogs that I tell others to do. The only dog in my house without her CHIC designation is the one that is too young to obtain it. I would happily post them again if you want to verify that I really do the testing. I feel very strongly about breeding for good health and temperament. Most puppies born will be pets and companions for people who have no interest in showing their dogs, every breeder owes it to those owners to breed healthy, well adjusted, sound tempered dogs for those families. These things do not happen by accident and require a lot of work.

I volunteer at my local shelter, and have a different view of what happens there then the people I see who come in to just "visit" the dogs. Those people may very well make the assumption that when a dog leaves the adoption floor that it was adopted. People prefer to think of "happy endings", that is not always the case. Dogs leave the adoption floor for several reasons in our shelter. They leave for spay/neuter, they leave because they get sick, and a few leave because they have the equivalent of a mental breakdown, these ones end up euthanized. Another thing that many don't realize is that at most shelter now, dogs must pass a temperament test to make it to the adoption floor. There are several breeds, such as terriers, whose inborn traits predispose them to score low on most of these tests making it difficult for them to "pass" these tests. If you are not actively volunteering and involved at your shelter, then I don't think you can fairly say that you know what is happening there.

Raising a litter is a lot of work and a huge time commitment. Here are some websites with information of things you can do to help make sure they develop into well adjusted adults:
http://tehillahgermanshepherds.com/earlystimulation.html
http://www.echowyn.com/Ruleof7.html

Also, know who your local emergency vet is and have the number handy. I have shared on this forum the terrifying experience of a stuck puppy at 3am and having to have an emergency C-section and losing a puppy. Hopefully all goes without a hitch but it is best to be prepared in case things do not.

[tanza]

And here is the link for Parson Russell Terrier's CHIC requirements, which are CERF exam (eye test), Patellar Luxation, and Congenital Deafness

Remember without knowing the "family" history, you have no idea what kind of problems you are going to get... and Basenjis are quite known for Patellar Luxation, so between the two breeds, this is a problem, along with possible Eye problems.

http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/brdreqs.html?breed=JT

There is so much that goes into breeding, hard enough keeping tract of health concerns in one breed, let alone mix breeds.

And to add to lvoss's note about knowing your ER Vet Clinic is vidal... my friend that has Silky's had the same thing happen... while she didn't require a C-section, it was still well over 2000.00 and a lost puppy....

[LiveWWSD]

And here is the link for Parson Russell Terrier's CHIC requirements, which are CERF exam (eye test), Patellar Luxation, and Congenital Deafness

Remember without knowing the "family" history, you have no idea what kind of problems you are going to get... and Basenjis are quite known for Patellar Luxation, so between the two breeds, this is a problem, along with possible Eye problems.

http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/brdreqs.html?breed=JT

There is so much that goes into breeding, hard enough keeping tract of health concerns in one breed, let alone mix breeds.



And to add to lvoss's note about knowing your ER Vet Clinic is vidal... my friend that has Silky's had the same thing happen... while she didn't require a C-section, it was still well over 2000.00 and a lost puppy....

Thank you for posting this Pat. It is important to note that Basenjis aren't the only ones with health risks when it comes to breeding, and mixing two dogs doesn't mean you nesicarrily mitigate the health concerns for each breed.
:)



P.S. Do you have any pups down in Dallas this week?

[tanza]

Thank you for posting this Pat. It is important to note that Basenjis aren't the only ones with health risks when it comes to breeding, and mixing two dogs doesn't mean you nesicarrily mitigate the health concerns for each breed.
:)



P.S. Do you have any pups down in Dallas this week?

Exactly.... in fact breeding mixes can make many, many problems worse.... it is one of the things that people forget when making statments that mixes are "healthier" then purebreds... which is totally not true... the difference is, purebreds know the health concerns, follow them, test for them, tell people... with a mix no one keeps track of the health problems... however just visit your local Vet and/or shelter and ask them about health problems in mixes, let alone poorly bred purebreds....

And nope, no pups in Dallas...couldn't get off work to go...

[snorky998]

"now, now....lets not get all pissy here sharron."
:mad: Uncalled for IMO. Bad form.

"i don't see why it'll be neccessarry to cut his testes. and cutting off his manlyhood in my opinion is not the responsible thing to do" (sic)
Many of us here use anthropomorphic phrases to describe our dogs, but this raises the hackles on my back!! Anthropomorphically speaking, the neutering (vasectomy) of any male, or removal of a testical(s), does NOT make that male unmanly, nor asexual. Dog or human.

As I read through this thread I never thought anyone was posting anything but sound advice. Read into it what you may, but I sincerely believe everyone, without exception, was trying to be helpful, not attacking or judging the OP, their family, or their dogs.

Kudos to you all. I can only hope 'lanemichelle...' continues to read--and learn-- as I have done since becoming a member. Thank you fellow members and administrators :) Dawn

[LiveWWSD]

and cutting off his manlyhood in my opinion is not the responsible thing to do,

REALLY????

Have you considered that by not fixing your boy you are subjecting him to a much higher likleyhood of cancer as he ages. IMO that IS NOT a responsible thing to do.

[tanza]

By the way, a neutered dog can still achieve a tie with a bitch, so not really much to the argument of "cutting off his manlyhood"..... but known as "safe sex"..... plus a healthier dog for its entire life, same with spaying a bitch, as they are very prone to breast cancer and also pyrometria is life threating in bitches. If you talk to responsible breeders, many dogs are collected and neutered for both health reason and behavior... add to that "no" opps puppies....

[sharronhurlbut]

I hope this couple are still reading these posts and will "get" what we are all trying to inform.
We post here because we care about dogs and the dogs they produce.
If you can rehome all the puppies, and the puppies their puppies, then you will be able to do better than some long time basenji breeders who have done all the testing and showing of their dogs and pups. Many can't sell all their pups and sometimes have them returned. Quality breeders take the dogs back they breed no matter what the age.
We have a large amount of b's and b mixes in the US.
Hopefully, you will learn from our peoples lack of responsiblity and not be overrun with unwanted dogs, in your small area.
I just don't know how you can do it without fixing dogs who are not showing.
FYI, I lived in Hawaii.
You do have unwanted pets. I know you do.

[lanemichelleandolimar]

<<if your not gonna be supportive and just being "know it all's" then i'd rather you not say anything, cause i heard it all. >>

Well...that's our job. As caretakers and protectors of our breed. We will not ever be supportive of someone who has the attitude you do. So, you will never meet anyone who really loves dogs who says 'oh, you decided not to spay and neuter your pets, and then didn't pay attention when the bitch was in heat, and now want to have a litter to give out to your friends and relatives...that is GREAT' It won't happen. People who love, and care about dogs don't want to see more unplanned breeding.

If you came here looking for support, I guess this isn't the place for that. Maybe you could find an irresponsible backyard breeder forum somewhere.

what attitude do i have? everyone is attacking us.

and if we're so irresponisble, why are we caring for them, researching, taking them to the vet, and everything. explain that. another thing i wanna confirm is that our vet told us that we'd have to wait till olimar was six months to get him neutered. he's not of age yet, so how are we irresponsible for not getting him neutered yet? but since we found out how much we love basenji's we wanted to get a female and have a liter. due to the fact that our family members want them and we want some more. after that we were planning to get him neutured. the comment about not neutering him was out of anger and i'm sure that if you were also attacked in the way we were you'd say things like that too.

but i bet now you guys are gonna get on my case about how we shouldn't even make a liter. so i'm ready, start the bashing.


ps. the female is a jack russell terrier. i'll take a look at their illnesses right after this, thank you.

by the way we know we aren't as "knowledgable" as all you guys are. so isn't this what these forums are for? isn't is so that newbies like us can get some positive insight into what we are so interested in from people who do know? thats exactly why we are on this forum everyday trying to do more and more research about the puppy we love. you all were newbies at one point too. so imagine hearing that your an irresponsible owner when you're trying to ask people to help you in a postive way. i'm sure that would get you upset as well. we know we're gonna make mistakes as first time owners, but it'd be nice to hear the Pro's telling us what we're doing wrong in a postive and helpful way.

oh and another thing... send me the forum link for that irresponsible backyard breeders, sounds like just the place for me. maybe i can find a forum for you that would be best for you, but i'll keep those words to myself. i'll be "responsible" enough to not display it on this forum.

thankyou so much for your help :)

[sharronhurlbut]

I can imagine you are feeling attacked.
You posted something you thought was great, and we are showing distress at this. Or I am at any rate.
If you can try to understand that we are here for the dogs.
We are also here to help folks learn to care for the b's they have, train the b's they own, and help with behaviors of dogs who have been passed on and on and on. We inform about health issues and testing so when a decision is made to create a litter, it can be done with all the best info possible.
I do rescue, so I just can't celebrate another mixed litter.
I am in total support of breeders who breed after testing their dogs for all the issues they have and then breeding to improve the breed.
We all start somewhere with learning about b's and their health issues.
Maybe this is your place to learn.
There is a lot of good info on this forum.

[lvoss]

The people who have responded to your post are not attacking you, they just don't share you "joy" in this event. That is a huge difference. I posed several questions in my first post which you say you can answer easily but you did not answer them publicly.

If you would like people on this forum to believe that you are really doing your best to be responsible rather than just responding defensively and frequently quite rudely, you would actually address the questions and concerns raised in each post.


So here are some questions you can choose to answer them or not.

1. What steps are you going to take to make sure that these puppies do not become a burden on the already overtaxed shelter system?
2. Will you require spay/neuter?
3. Are you prepared to answer the many questions that new dog owners have when their puppies start exhibiting "bad behavior", such as chewing, separation anxiety, housetraining issues, resource guarding, etc? If you are not familiar with these issues do you know local trainers that use positive reinforcement that you can refer owners to?
4. Have you researched early puppy development and planned for what you will do to make sure your puppies are adequately socialized prior to leaving for their new homes?
5. Do you know where your local emergency vet is and have their number handy?
6. Do you have $2000 in cash or credit available in case of a medical emergency? If not, have you thought about what you will do if there is a medical emergency regarding the dam or pups?
7. Do you have funds available to buy whelping supplies? Do you know what is needed in a whelping kit?

These are just the questions that come to mind for this current litter.

Again before considering breeding in the future. You need to be able to answer and be willing to answer these questions when people ask.

1. What does Olimar have to offer the breed?
2. What health testing for hereditary diseases have done? What is Olimar's registered name so this can be verified in the publicly accessible databases?
3. What are your goals as a breeder?
4. How will you prevent contributing to the over burdened shelter system?
5. How will you contribute to the basenji community as a whole?
6. How will you contribute to basenji rescue? and your local animal shelters?

[DiegosMom]

what attitude do i have? everyone is attacking us.

and if we're so irresponisble, why are we caring for them, researching, taking them to the vet, and everything. explain that. another thing i wanna confirm is that our vet told us that we'd have to wait till olimar was six months to get him neutered. he's not of age yet, so how are we irresponsible for not getting him neutered yet? but since we found out how much we love basenji's we wanted to get a female and have a liter. due to the fact that our family members want them and we want some more. after that we were planning to get him neutured. the comment about not neutering him was out of anger and i'm sure that if you were also attacked in the way we were you'd say things like that too.

but i bet now you guys are gonna get on my case about how we shouldn't even make a liter. so i'm ready, start the bashing.

by the way we know we aren't as "knowledgable" as all you guys are. so isn't this what these forums are for? isn't is so that newbies like us can get some positive insight into what we are so interested in from people who do know? thats exactly why we are on this forum everyday trying to do more and more research about the puppy we love. you all were newbies at one point too. so imagine hearing that your an irresponsible owner when you're trying to ask people to help you in a postive way. i'm sure that would get you upset as well. we know we're gonna make mistakes as first time owners, but it'd be nice to hear the Pro's telling us what we're doing wrong in a postive and helpful way.



If you truly care about the breed and want to be a breeder, then you should learn as much information as you can about the breed and breeding (which it sounds like you've already started) and try to find a responsible breeder that will teach you, and then figure out how get into breeding with a basenji that you know its family lineage and about the personalities, health, and temperments and so forth of its relatives. and make sure you have the time and money to dedicate to breeding, if you want to be a responsible breeder.. and i'm sure i'm only touching on what it takes to be a breeder, but if you're going to do it, do it right, not with a puppy from a pet store (and I'm not trying to be rude and "bash" you or your dog, but a pet store puppy is not a dog to breed with). IMO i wouldn't expect to get much support here saying you aren't going to nueter your boy because you want to breed him, not many people here are going to support an irresponsible breeder..

[Duke]

I'm not a breeder - I own 2 mixed B's. After reading this, I feel compelled to respond with my own observation. I see that you are doing your best for the task at hand - good for you. I hope you are here to learn more about your dogs and the challenge upon you. Every day should be a good day to learn something.

what attitude do i have? everyone is attacking us.

and if we're so irresponisble, why are we caring for them, researching, taking them to the vet, and everything. explain that. another thing i wanna confirm is that our vet told us that we'd have to wait till olimar was six months to get him neutered.

Your vet doesn't want to spay before the age of 6 month - My girl Daisy a B-mix was spayed at 8 weeks. Her mother was a rescued and pregnant Basenji. The rescue group would not release any of her pups until they were spayed or neutered to be responsibly sure there wouldn't be any chance of more unwanted dogs in a shelter.he's not of age yet, so how are we irresponsible for not getting him neutered yet? but since we found out how much we love basenji's we wanted to get a female and have a liter. due to the fact that our family members want them and we want some more. after that we were planning to get him neutured. the comment about not neutering him was out of anger and i'm sure that if you were also attacked in the way we were you'd say things like that too.

but i bet now you guys are gonna get on my case about how we shouldn't even make a liter. so i'm ready, start the bashing.

This is the "attitude".ps. the female is a jack russell terrier. i'll take a look at their illnesses right after this, thank you.

by the way we know we aren't as "knowledgable" as all you guys are. so isn't this what these forums are for? isn't is so that newbies like us can get some positive insight into what we are so interested in from people who do know?

Yes - everyone was a newbie at one point - but you're not absorbing what is important by being so defensive. This place is a wonderful resource - if you realize the fact that seasoned breeders and dog handlers are here trying to help you - not attack you.thats exactly why we are on this forum everyday trying to do more and more research about the puppy we love. you all were newbies at one point too. so imagine hearing that your an irresponsible owner

No where on here did anyone call you an irresponsible owner. This is the place to learn how to be a responsible owner - for the love and help for your dear furkids.when you're trying to ask people to help you in a postive way. i'm sure that would get you upset as well. we know we're gonna make mistakes as first time owners, but it'd be nice to hear the Pro's telling us what we're doing wrong in a postive and helpful way.

I've read over and over where the Pro's were doing just that - informing you at best - Being defensive at every turn isn't helping you.oh and another thing... send me the forum link for that irresponsible backyard breeders, sounds like just the place for me. maybe i can find a forum for you that would be best for you, but i'll keep those words to myself. i'll be "responsible" enough to not display it on this forum.

thankyou so much for your help :)

[tanza]

While anyone can have an "opps" litter/breeding.. even the most experienced breeders... and that is not the point... I think that the point is "how" excited you are... instead of "Oh Crap".... OK... now what do we do?"....

OK... so here is a question, how old is the Jack Russell bitch? (and while they are separated into two different breeds by name.... health concerns are pretty much the same for both)... and why was she not spayed?... And since you knew that you had an intact male and intact bitch... that makes it so much harder when the bitch is in season... well OK... you had an "opps"..... but what are you going to do now....

If you really want to be a responsible breeder of Basenjis.. has any of your boy's litter (and it would be nice to learn how to spell "litter") been shown or in performance events, done their CGC (Caine Good Citizens test)? Fully health tested? There are a few responsible breeders in Hawaii... have you talked to them? Do you want to?

Instead of being on the defensive, the other side of the coin is.... help me to learn what I need to do to be a responsible breeder... Be responsible and have these pups spayed/neutered before you place them.. so this doesn't happen to someone else with another dog....

[sharronhurlbut]

Thanks Pat, as always you put it so well.

[fountainhead]

they give dog's abortions?

[sharronhurlbut]

Yes, the vets can terminate a pg for a female when they fix her when she is pg.
I also think they have a pill they can give a female in the early stages to have her lose the pg...but not sure about the time frame or the effectiveness of it.

[tanza]

Yes, the vets can terminate a pg for a female when they fix her when she is pg.
I also think they have a pill they can give a female in the early stages to have her lose the pg...but not sure about the time frame or the effectiveness of it.

The pills rarely work .... and honestly, most Vets are against spay/termination unless it is a health issue... but spay for sure immediately after. Remember that 99% of bitches will have a season after whelping within 3 to 4 months...

[khanis]

There are a few responsible breeders in Hawaii... have you talked to them? Do you want to?



Of course, I have to jump in here. Pkease all remember that I have had, and today have two bitches from John in Hawaii [one down from my own dogs over there].
Let's get real technical here.... and I am not yelling, I just want this point understood by everyone reading this thread:

THERE IS ONLY ONE 'ACTVE' RESPONSIBLE BASENJI BREEDER IN HAWAII. Period.

There are two 'inactive' breeders [each only had 2 litters in the past 15 years]. Rita moved up to Washington, so only John Gaidos is there now.

Unfortunately, there is a horrid puppy store that imports all breeds from Australia. Basenjis are sold there throughout the year.
There is one active BYB there, and he breeds regularly.
NONE of his stock is health-tested.

RESCUE IS A PROBLEM in Hawaii. Don't let the fact that it is remote or a small place fool you.... basenjis also end up in shelters there!

Now that your dog has sired a litter, you NEED to get this testing done.
Hips can be pre-Limmed. Elbows and Patellas can be done. Thyroid at a year old. Eyes can be done, you will hae ot go to the eye doc there, and it runs $50 for an exam.

If you feel that your dog is of good quality, start doing somethig with him... show him, take him to performance events.... agility, obedience, rally... get him involved with something that can prove his worthiness as a stud dog.

I wouldn't use a dog that did not have heath clearances nor any titles. The dog I am using this year is located in Ohio and I live in Oregon. He is a Dual Champion, as well as having several agility titles and working on his obedience too. This makes a good stud dog.... well titled and passing all health clearances!!

SORRY to be so blunt, but it was the only way that I felt I could get across what I wanted... and what I deem important in a dog and it's use as a stud.

[sharronhurlbut]

Thanks Kathy. I am afraid this person has stopped listening.
Its too bad.

[nomrbddgs]

I'm a little late on this one, but here's my two cents on not neutering a male. Males can also get prostititus. (I think that's spelled right) I had a mini Schnauzer that had it-three times before I finally had the chance to fix him. To the cost of over $1000 each time he got sick before he finally got healthy enough to neuter him. This is a real problem as well.

[khanis]

With this mind set, the dog NEEDS to be neutered.

Then tested!

[sharronhurlbut]

I don't think you will have anyone on this forum disagree with your last post Kathy.

[tanza]

And I hope that this person reads the post today from the couple in Texas...under the screen name of Porthos and their "opps" breeding