anxiety help

[wizard]

I know it's only been a week since Luny came to live with me and we are still working through a few things while he settles in.

He is still really anxious when I leave, and goes and hides in the bedroom when he knows I'm getting ready to go to work. I know he is fine with the crate itself because he readily goes in if he sees his dinner coming. It's just the part about being alone that causes him anxiety. I've left a talk-radio station on, and a treat-filled kong and a few stuffed toys in the crate, and a pile of newspapers in there as well (he's gone through all my old towels and rugs tearing them apart). I'm working on "disappearing" for short periods of time into the basement or garage and this morning even left him loose in the house while I went and shoveled snow. I feel guilty about crating him all day while I'm at work but I just don't trust him yet. I know this is also just going to take time to work itself out (after all I've only had him a week).

However, I was wondering if anyone has tried those doggies calming-sprays or room scents?

[dmcarty]

You might have better luck with some 'rescue remedy' its drops - work pretty ok. I've tried Mello Mutt chew sticks but rescue remedy seems to work better.

[wizard]

I never heard of rescue remedy. I'll look for it.
At least he doesn't howl as much as he once did.

[sharronhurlbut]

Time will probably make it better.

[BDawg]

I tried Rescue Remedy and it didn't do anything at all. :(
I have a post, "Miles: A Rescue" that shows what we went through to get Miles crate trained. :)

[wizard]

It's not the crate that is the problem - Luny will run into his crate if he sees his dinner being prepared. It's being left alone. I was outside yesterday clearing snow for about 20 minutes acn could hear him howling like a banshee.
I know this will take time (I got spoiled by EL D who worked things out within a week) and I'm working on disappearing for short periods to get Luny used to it. I was just looking for some things to help with the stress.

[nomrbddgs]

Just a question, but have you tried covering the crate while you're home? If he seems okay with that, I would try leaving with the crate covered for short periods. Maybe stepping outside for a few minutes to hear how he reacts? It could be as simple as 'if he can't see you, he'll be okay'.

[wizard]

Yes I did cover it partly - but after tearing up all the rugs I had given him, he finally pulled the cover off and tore that up.
I do give him toys and a treat-stuffed kong and by the time I come home I can tell he's just been sleeping. It's the initial stress on him that tears at my heart (maybe I'm just too much of a softie and just have to wait this out).

[lvoss]

You may want to try a DAP diffuser or the DAP spray.

[JazzysMom]

You might have better luck with some 'rescue remedy' its drops - work pretty ok. I've tried Mello Mutt chew sticks but rescue remedy seems to work better.


I used Rescue Remedy with slight success with Keoki, until I realized the alcohol content. I don't recommend it. Alcohol is really hard for the dog's body to process.

[JazzysMom]

It's not the crate that is the problem - Luny will run into his crate if he sees his dinner being prepared. It's being left alone. I was outside yesterday clearing snow for about 20 minutes acn could hear him howling like a banshee.
I know this will take time (I got spoiled by EL D who worked things out within a week) and I'm working on disappearing for short periods to get Luny used to it. I was just looking for some things to help with the stress.


Remind me what type of crate you have.

Keoki was a NIGHTMARE... a freaking NIGHTMARE... for the first year+ that we had him.

I won't go into details because they are all outlines somewhere here. But I will say, we started with a plastic crate and then an ex-pen, neither of which worked with him.
Eventually I got a large wire crate {which someone here had suggested long before}, and -- I don't know why it worked when the ex-pen did not -- but we have all been sleeping peacefully ever August 13, 2008 the first night we had that wire crate. Both Basenjis sleep in it, both have cushy beds that are no longer destroyed.

I cannot tell you why, but that wire crate worked magic.

[wizard]

Yes it is a heavy gauge wire crate.
I just found out today that part of the problem is that he has always had someone with him almost his entire life. His pervious life partners were mostly retired and he also had a basenji mate.
I'll just have to find him a new mate :)

[tanza]

When Sal got him back, didn't his B-Mate come with him? And I agree, if you could get him a "friend" that might be the best.... and hey... everyone needs at least two Basenjis...gggg

[snorky998]

When Sal got him back, didn't his B-Mate come with him? And I agree, if you could get him a "friend" that might be the best.... and hey... everyone needs at least two Basenjis...gggg

wizard, I agree with tanza.....gggg....a B. friend might solve your problems:p ....or maybe you have some college age kids hanging around willing to walk a beast a couple of times a day??

[JazzysMom]

Yes it is a heavy gauge wire crate.
I just found out today that part of the problem is that he has always had someone with him almost his entire life. His pervious life partners were mostly retired and he also had a basenji mate.
I'll just have to find him a new mate :)


Awww shucks. You mean you'll have to get another Basenji? Well, we do what we must to keep our dogs healthy and happy. Ahh, the sacrifices we must make..... ;)

[wizard]

Yes, I've already mentioned that (about another beastie) to Sally -- "double the pleasure, double the fun" she said :D
And no the playmate didn't come with Tommy (don't know the story there).

[dmcarty]

Hey maybe we're using rescue remedy wrong - maybe WE are supposed to drink it - :)

[wizard]

No I have my own "rescue remedy" if you know what I mean ;)

[Kananga]

Yes it is a heavy gauge wire crate.
I just found out today that part of the problem is that he has always had someone with him almost his entire life. His pervious life partners were mostly retired and he also had a basenji mate.
I'll just have to find him a new mate :)
That makes sense. I think that was partially the issue with my B. Although he was a good boy long enough for me to trust him in my home now. The only thing I found to work was to give him something that he could shred or work on for the time he was in there.

Sounds like the best solution for you is another B, considering his prior situation.

Hopefully it all works out. :D

[wizard]

Well I thought we were on the road to "saneness". After two long days free in the house, Luny would only just pee on the newspapers that I left in the kitchen and then tear them to pieces. Yesterday, however, I came home to more serious mess.

He had stood on his hind legs to reach what was left of the blinds on the patio door and shredded what he could get his mouth on then chewed the door handle and made deep gouges in the door! Except for a rag in the bathroom that was also torn up, it was still confined to the kitchen area (makes sense since that is where the doors to outside are). I was pretty angry (and then felt guilty all night for yelling at him) and stressed all night thinking about what I could do and what might happen with the holidays coming.

I don't know what set him off - something he saw in the yard, or whether he saw me drive off, or that there was a delivery man leaving a box. He must have calmed down at some point because my bed was slept in again.

He's loose again today - I didn't make any big deal about leaving, just left. I really hope he's better today.

[Kananga]

Well I thought we were on the road to "saneness". After two long days free in the house, Luny would only just pee on the newspapers that I left in the kitchen and then tear them to pieces. Yesterday, however, I came home to more serious mess.

He had stood on his hind legs to reach what was left of the blinds on the patio door and shredded what he could get his mouth on then chewed the door handle and made deep gouges in the door! Except for a rag in the bathroom that was also torn up, it was still confined to the kitchen area (makes sense since that is where the doors to outside are). I was pretty angry (and then felt guilty all night for yelling at him) and stressed all night thinking about what I could do and what might happen with the holidays coming.

I don't know what set him off - something he saw in the yard, or whether he saw me drive off, or that there was a delivery man leaving a box. He must have calmed down at some point because my bed was slept in again.

He's loose again today - I didn't make any big deal about leaving, just left. I really hope he's better today.

I'm assuming you leave toys out for him. I'm almost curious what my B does all day since he doesn't get into anything. I've been tempted to buy a decent webcam and host it on a private server, so I can view his activities from work.

Something to consider. Could help you analyze what causes him to get destructive.

[wizard]

Today I came home to destruction again - he clawed and gouged again at the door (:mad:) and managed to get the leash down from the hook and chewed that up along with all the newspapers I left but what really got me concerned was that he moved into other rooms. Luny tore up a label that was on an electrical cord (thank goodness he didn't eat the plug or the cord), knocked over my wireless connection box in the living room (not sure how he did that without knocking the clock or lamp off the table), and tore up another rag in the bathroom.
I'm assuming that these events yesterday and today were caused by deliveries being left at the doors. But I'm not sure, and the cord chewing and knocking off the wireless has me very concerned. I don't think I can trust him alone with the Christmas tree or the antique nativity. Next week I'm taking some days off before Christmas so I'll be around but I think I will have to leave him in the crate when I go back to work after the holidays, at least for awhile.
Anyway, I went and got a crate the next size up from the one he has so he'll at least have a little more room. I really don't like to yell at him, and he hasn't really caused costly damage, but still ... I just have to have more patience and he'll have to settle for the crate until we can work through this.

[MacPack]

I have heard that those DAP things work for anxiety, but they are expensive and I have never personally used them.
Do you leave the TV or radio (or both) on when you are gone? That might help, especially if outside noises trigger his destructiveness

I think vets can prescribe clonopin (sp?) for anxiety issues, that helps get some dogs settled down enough to work with behavior and wean off the drugs.

Then of course there is the age old remedy for separation anxiety...another dog!

Good luck, I'm sure you are very frustrated!

Anne

[sharronhurlbut]

I know my 2 b's sleep when I am at work...or they play with each other.
Could it be he needs a companion?

[wizard]

Oh yes the companion thing is probably the biggest issue - I have my name in for the next one that comes available.
I might try my vet in the meantime - thanks for that idea.

[gbroxon]

Oh yes the companion thing is probably the biggest issue - I have my name in for the next one that comes available.
I might try my vet in the meantime - thanks for that idea.

You might want to "borrow" a dog for awhile to see if it'll work. You may make the problem worse if the new dog also has separation anxiety. Even if it doesn't have SA, it may not help Luny's SA.

Since Magnum suffers from SA (which has gone from moderate to very mild), I've learned a lot about the disorder. Magnum suffers from "I don't like being alone" SA, not "I need my mommy" SA. I had a dobie years ago who had the "I need my mommy" SA and having a companion made no difference at all. He was only comfortable if I was around.

Whatever your path, I wish you and Luny the best of luck. Any type of SA is a tough issue to deal with.

[tanza]

That is what I was thinking, does Sal have a B girl around that you could "borrow"?

[wizard]

I was off work all last week and had relatives staying here too so I thought I'd better ease Luny back into my work routine.
The last two days I went to work for half days and brought reports and things to work at home in the afternoon -- I thought it best to ease him back into my work routine. I left Luny loose in part of the house (kitchen, den, bedroom) with several toys and a couple of treat-filled kongs and have a DAP dispenser in the bedroom where his bed is. But when I came home, it was clear his SA is still going strong. He mangled the blinds over the door (I completely forgot about that set) and chewed on the handle, tore up a new sweatshirt, and pulled the lamp off my dresser and chomped on the lamp shade, in addition to peeing and pooping (luckily not on the carpet or wood floor).
So far the damage has still been relatively "minimal" but the lamp has me worried that his SA destruction is going to escalate maybe? I sure hope not.
I also talked with Sally about letting me know if another dog becomes available and have my name in with the local rescue group.
In the meantime, I guess I will have to go back to crating him when I go back to full days away next week. But when he realizes that I'm getting ready for work (I suppose he can tell by the clothes) he goes and hides in the farthest corner. I sure don't want him to become even more whacko but I am getting "rather concerned".
Any other suggestions to help?

[renaultf1]

Regarding the hiding...Ruby used to do that when she was "an only child". So to overcome that, I used a really high value treat (in my case, cheese). I use cheese for training (and basenji escape recoveries :rolleyes:), so they get it sparingly. But in the morning before I'd leave for work, I would pull the cheese out and have the lead in my hand. Ruby would come to me and sit, I'd put the lead on and then reward her with the cheese. She knew what was going to happen, but wanted the cheese so bad, that she would come anyway. And one other thing is I never took a step toward her, I made her come right next to me.

[wizard]

Still dealing with this issue (I know it can take a long time to work out sometimes) and have been working with a behavior trainer on Luny's anxiety - some things in my behavior to work on too. We are working on changing one little thing at a time (teaches me patience too).
But always glad to have other expert opinions.
With respect to his going into hiding in the corner before I leave -- Renaultf1, do you use the lead to get your Ruby INTO her kennel or just to get her out of the corner? You're not "dragging" her out of the corner are you? I have tried to show him the frozen bone or whatever the day's treat is, to give him some idea what awaits him in the kennel but it still is a "struggle".

[renaultf1]

Still dealing with this issue (I know it can take a long time to work out sometimes) and have been working with a behavior trainer on Luny's anxiety - some things in my behavior to work on too. We are working on changing one little thing at a time (teaches me patience too).
But always glad to have other expert opinions.
With respect to his going into hiding in the corner before I leave -- Renaultf1, do you use the lead to get your Ruby INTO her kennel or just to get her out of the corner? You're not "dragging" her out of the corner are you? I have tried to show him the frozen bone or whatever the day's treat is, to give him some idea what awaits him in the kennel but it still is a "struggle".
No...I never had to drag her out. I would take the cheese out and she would come to me, sit & I would put the lead on. Without the cheese, she would run from corner to corner and I couldn't catch her. Plus I didn't want to chase her as I thought it just might make her more anxious. Once the lead was on, she would walk fine upstairs...never tried to go in the opposite direction. Once in the room, I would pick her up, take the lead off, and gently put her in the crate. There were plenty of good things waiting for her in her crate...kong, marrow bone, biscuits.

[wizard]

Okay thanks - just wanted to clarify.
A special treat just for going to the kennel should work I think.
Mixing up his morning routine seems to be helpful too (but hard sometimes since I don't always have extra time before I leave for work) .

[Vanessa]

I would look into a DAP collar to try to calm the little guy.
Lately we have been taking our B's for long walks and it really tires them out so they are not as destructive :)
I've used Rescue Remedy to no avail. Chance used to get himself so worked up when traveling he would puke. I gave Rescue Remedy a try and it really did not work. We went through a real tough time getting him used to car rides. After time (and many trips to the cleaners to get the seats cleaned) he is used to it. He still worries all the time though. He just has one of those types of personalities. After we introduced a second B, he has calmed down (a little). He still paces and gets flustered anytime we leave but at least he has a friend to keep him company. :)

[wizard]

I'm checking into a second B and have two leads for young females. We'll see how that goes (the last thing I need is two lunatics :D).
I will also continue working with the behavior trainer and the crate treats. A DAP diffuser is in the room with the crate and I also use the rescue remedy - I know it's not easy to tell if they are working or not until you take them off, but no harm in using them anyway.
Thanks for all the tips. Putting an older dog (Luny's 10) in a completely new situation is a tough thing. Patience patience (I'm working on that too - I look at it as a good learning experience).

[sharronhurlbut]

Re car rides, *this is going to sound odd, but it does work for me and my 2 dogs*.
Even if you have walked your dogs before a car trip, I find the excitement of the "get into the car" and going makes there guts act up.
So, here is what we do. *We take the dogs a lot on vacation when we go by car*.
We walk the dogs in the am, feed and water.
Get them into the car.
Drive about 2 miles and stop and let them out to walk.
Both always pee and poo when we stop.
Once back in the car, they settle and are quiet.
About a hr or so into the ride, they start to get "ACTIVE" again...we stop at a rest area, they go, and then they sleep the rest of the way.
Could be the excitement of leaving home, the motion of the car or whatever, but these stops, even tho you want to get going...make the trip much easier on all involved.
Give it a try. All you can lose is a bit of time...

[renaultf1]

Re car rides, *this is going to sound odd, but it does work for me and my 2 dogs*.
Even if you have walked your dogs before a car trip, I find the excitement of the "get into the car" and going makes there guts act up.
So, here is what we do. *We take the dogs a lot on vacation when we go by car*.
We walk the dogs in the am, feed and water.
Get them into the car.
Drive about 2 miles and stop and let them out to walk.
Both always pee and poo when we stop.
Once back in the car, they settle and are quiet.
About a hr or so into the ride, they start to get "ACTIVE" again...we stop at a rest area, they go, and then they sleep the rest of the way.
Could be the excitement of leaving home, the motion of the car or whatever, but these stops, even tho you want to get going...make the trip much easier on all involved.
Give it a try. All you can lose is a bit of time...

Sharron...I've had friends use that method as well...so I think you (and them) are on to something.

Wizard...It is a tough road, separation anxiety. I never had much success with the DAP - spray or plug-in...and I used both for about half a year. I finally gave up on it. Although, my vet and the pet store I bought it at said they knew of people that had had success with it.

Good for you for working with a behaviorist...they definitely will have better ideas about things to try. The second beastie was the golden ticket for Ruby though...and seriously, I've found that 2 b's are so much easier than one. So much so that I'm thinking of adding another either this year or next...and for that I might need my head examined.