Pedigree

[cuttiepie732]

My breeder just sent me th pedigree of the father, and I was just wondering if you could help me out by looking at it? I don't know what to look for.

[YodelDogs]

Will the breeder be forwarding the dam's pedigree also?

[cuttiepie732]

Yes. She is looking for it, making phone calls as we speak. On the pedigree is says foreign registration... So her parents weren't in the U.S.

[YodelDogs]

Foreign? When you said the dam is ACA and CKC registered, did you mean CKC as in Canadian Kennel Club or Continental Kennel Club?

[cuttiepie732]

Continental Kennel Club.

[sharronhurlbut]

Oh, that isn't really a good place to have a dogs parents from.
Sorry to share that with you.

[YodelDogs]

I'm still puzzled by the "foreign" part but perhaps when you get the actual pedigree it could shine some light on that.

My breeder just sent me th pedigree of the father, and I was just wondering if you could help me out by looking at it? I don't know what to look for.

I don't think anyone will be able to comment about specific dogs without seeing the actual pedigree. If you would like me to share my thoughts and comments about it, you could send it to me via email to yodeldogs at aol dot com.

[cuttiepie732]

Oh, that isn't really a good place to have a dogs parents from.
Sorry to share that with you.

It's ok. This is the first time I have actually bought a puppy from a breeder. Last time I had a dog I got her at petland...

[tanza]

Continental Kennel Club.

That is not foreign... this is a "made up" registery... that many BYB and Puppy Millers use because they do not want to confirm to AKC regulations for DNA parent testing.....

[cuttiepie732]

I'm still puzzled by the "foreign" part but perhaps when you get the actual pedigree it could shine some light on that.



I don't think anyone will be able to comment about specific dogs without seeing the actual pedigree. If you would like me to share my thoughts and comments about it, you could send it to me via email to yodeldogs at aol dot com.


I sent you an email thanks.

[tanza]

It's ok. This is the first time I have actually bought a puppy from a breeder. Last time I had a dog I got her at petland...


At the risk of sounding "nasty" and I know it will be taken that way... this is NOT a responsible breeder... this is a pure for profit breeder... sorry, but these are the facts...

[cuttiepie732]

That is not foreign... this is a "made up" registery... that many BYB and Puppy Millers use because they do not want to confirm to AKC regulations for DNA parent testing.....

She got the damn by chance I can copy the email of what she sent.

[tanza]

My breeder just sent me th pedigree of the father, and I was just wondering if you could help me out by looking at it? I don't know what to look for.

And you can go to http://www.pedigrees.zandebasenjis.com/search.html and see if you can find the sire of your pup in this database. This is the database that responsible breeders use

[tanza]

If you would like to share the information, then there are many of us here that can research

[cuttiepie732]

Research what? The sire is Texas Wallering Poker. Dam is Sandy Dandee.

This is the email
"As stated in the ad they are ACA and CKC registered. The way I got Dandee and Sandee was by chance. My daughter saw an ad in the paper 3 years ago about a kennel closing and every dog had to go that weekend. We went to look at a shih-tzu for my daughter. This place was horrible and filthy and no dog should ever have to live in those conditions. It smelled so bad you couldn't breathe and the dogs were in a barn with narrow little runs that obviously had never been cleaned. I was sickened and I saw three basenjis. Not familiar with the breed,(I have raised shelties for many years) I asked about them and the woman didn't have anything good at all to say about them. She had bought them in Louisiana and they were all about a year old. They seemed overly excited and friendly but I assume it was because they wanted out! Feeling sorry for them I immediately brought them home. After several vet visits and bathes and lots of sunlight (which they had never been in since puppies) and room to run around I fell in love with the breed and have had them ever since. They are different from my shelties but very unique in their own way. Dandee is the sweetest and most calm. Loves everyone and gets along very well with other dogs. Sandee can be a little dominating and I have to put her in her place at times. The male I brought home died from a snakebite 2 years ago. We live very secluded in the country and have 600 acres surrounding us so snakes are very common in Texas. He didn't make it and I bought Poker from a man in Oklahoma. All of my basenjis have no health problems. The puppies will have a full health checkup at about 7 weeks where my vet checks their eyes, hearing and patellas. He does a fecal exam and a neurological stimulus test. If any problems are present then I will let you know. Out of 3 years of Basenji litters i have only had one puppy that had a slipped disk. The rest have been very healthy and passed all health exams. You will get a copy of the health exam when you get your puppy. Feel free to ask any more questions."

[tanza]

Well neither the sire or dam are AKC registered. Did she give you the names of their sire and dams?

And I take great exception to "my Basenjis have no health problems".... unless you do health testing, how do you know that? And I don't see any Eye Exams? And to take those Basenjis and then turn around and breed them... IMO is not being responsible... to take them, spay/neuter and find or give them good homes, that that would be responsible.

[cuttiepie732]

Maybe she is not being responsible... idk. I am getting the fanconi test, and if I have to I'll do the other test. I decided on him before I came onto this board, and I really like to talk to you guys. I just think she has a heart... but idk.

[tanza]

Maybe she is not being responsible... idk. I am getting the fanconi test, and if I have to I'll do the other test. I decided on him before I came onto this board, and I really like to talk to you guys. I just think she has a heart... but idk.

Like I have said before, it is everyones choice what/where they decide to get a puppy... we can only give you the voice of reason... and that there are better choices... I wish you good luck with your puppy and only hope that you will have him neutered and enjoy him as a family pet... without health problems.

[cuttiepie732]

Oh trust me my pup is not going to breed. My old chiarat Riley had puppies w a yorkie and surprisingly they were cute! But never again lol. He is going to neutered as soon as it is 'time' for him to be. My old sheltie died of kidney failure so I know what pain feels like when losing a dog. I just hope you guys will still talk to me, and respect me. That's all I am asking for.

[lvoss]

ACA and Continental Kennel Club often referred to as CKC by puppymills in order to sound like the Canadian Kennel Club, a reputable foreign registry. When dogs are advertised as being registered with these registries it is a giant red flag that the person who is breeding does not want to follow AKC rules, including mandatory DNA parentage profiles for frequently used sires but still wants to make their puppies sounds valuable by saying they are "registered".

[agilebasenji]

cuttiepie-
i have to say i've been reading your threads and i just wanted to say i've been really impressed with your openness and learning curve. so many people get defensive and i think that's easy to do when confronted with less than stellar comments about a puppy that they are/planning on bringing home. the advice you've been given here, however, is spot on from caring breeders that have been in the breed for many, many years. however, i think every here also knows it's so easy to quickly fall in love with a basenji puppy, even from just looking at the pictures. but one of the biggest problems with basenjis is that many of the health problems (fanconi, pra) that plague this breed don't show up until the dogs are older. late-onset health problems for many breeds mean 4 or 6; however in our breed a "healthy" dog starting to show signs of fanconi or pra at 10 (or later) is not uncommon. everyone here wants to see you bring home the best possible puppy for your home so that you can enjoy your puppy for many, many healthy years to come. Good luck in whatever you decide.

[cuttiepie732]

Another way I see it is that this puppy is going to a good home. I will love him with all my heart. I am seeing her house when I pick him up...

[cuttiepie732]

Also I already scheduled the flight, called off work, and my mom said we can't change the flight, and stuff, and thank you. lol

[dmcarty]

The Continental Kennel Club is a sham registry - no animal from the CKC will be eligible to compete in any AKC events (unless neutered and you apply for an ILP number) Puppies with a parent whose registry is the CKC are not eligible to be registered with AKC.

What does that mean - it means that while your 'breeder' may be well intentioned - or new - she has started with animals from an unreliable registry and most likely the animals came from a puppy mill or broker. It makes it difficult to track many of the things that basenjis get because - the puppy mill registration is under the radar if they are not AKC. They don't have to comply with any DNA testing that proves the dad is the dad. etc.

So you can say - it doesn't matter because you only want a companion - BUT you are supporting irresponsible breeders when you purchase from someone like this. Your choice of course - but I think enough of us have pointed out things that should be a concern to you - you have to decide if you want to purchase from someone that appears to have mis-represented her sire and dam OR is so lacking in knowledge that someone else gave her mis-information. Neither of which is very appealing as someone that I would expect to have a lifelong relationship with or someone who could assist you over the life of your dog.

[cuttiepie732]

I don't know. I am talking to her tomorrow. Like I said though I already have flight and everything....

[tanza]

The Continental Kennel Club is a sham registry - no animal from the CKC will be eligible to compete in any AKC events (unless neutered and you apply for an ILP number) Puppies with a parent whose registry is the CKC are not eligible to be registered with AKC.

What does that mean - it means that while your 'breeder' may be well intentioned - or new - she has started with animals from an unreliable registry and most likely the animals came from a puppy mill or broker. It makes it difficult to track many of the things that basenjis get because - the puppy mill registration is under the radar if they are not AKC. They don't have to comply with any DNA testing that proves the dad is the dad. etc.

So you can say - it doesn't matter because you only want a companion - BUT you are supporting irresponsible breeders when you purchase from someone like this. Your choice of course - but I think enough of us have pointed out things that should be a concern to you - you have to decide if you want to purchase from someone that appears to have mis-represented her sire and dam OR is so lacking in knowledge that someone else gave her mis-information. Neither of which is very appealing as someone that I would expect to have a lifelong relationship with or someone who could assist you over the life of your dog.

Well put... I totally agree...

[cuttiepie732]

Also I don't really know if this matters or what not. I decided to get a basenji, because In december I had to get rid of my dog, because my dad attempted suicide. It broke my heart that I had to get rid of my dog. I had her for 6 years. I decided on a B, because I just like their personality, and I love a challenge. I just typed in basenji puppies on google and it came up on the puppy website. I saw the basenji, and price, so I acted on it. I have never bought from a breeder. Three weeks ago I made the flight reservation, puppy carry on, and the days off I needed. If she is an irresponsible breeder I can't help it. I decided to get him before I came on this forum. I just wanted to talk to people that are aware with basenji's. I found this forum by pure luck. I talked to a breeder near me, and she didn't have any puppies at the time, so I went for the second choice. I need an companion in my life, and I know I am not a breeder, or have an experience with this breed, but in my gut I just have this feeling that everything is going to work out ok... Like I said I am meeting her at her house, and looking at things and what not.

[YodelDogs]

Assuming that the pedigree that Cuttiepie shared with me is her puppy's pedigree and not the sire's, here's what I see. The paternal side of the pedigree from the grandparents on back are an unbroken line of AKC dogs. The paternal grand-parents and great-grandparents are dual registered with either the CKC or ACA. (I can't remember how each club writes it's registration numbers.) The dam is registered with the CKC or ACA, whichever this is. Her parents names are listed but they are not registered. Everything else behind the maternal side of the pedigree is listed as "foreign registry". In other words, it's a fancy way of saying we have no idea who they are. Cuttiepie's puppy cannot obtain AKC registration but it can be registered with whichever registry this is, CKC or ACA.

[lvoss]

Here is some food for thought. What will you do if when the DNA Marker results come back the puppy you plan to go pick up is Probably Affected? Will you still purchase him because you have already booked the flight and taken the time off? If she only tested him and not the rest of the litter and the parents are both carriers any of the pups in the litter could also be Affected so it isn't like you could just pick a different untested pup and to avoid the problem.

And as for "only" wanting a companion, that really should make you even more concerned about these issues. I tell each person that contacts me that every one of puppies is first and foremost someone's companion and as such I will not compromise on health or temperament. Each of my dogs is my companion and I want them with me for as long as possible and to be as healthy as possible. What does that mean to me, it means that I have met every dog I have used in my breeding program prior to breeding to them. I am even now planning to fly across the country this spring to meet the dog I hope to use this fall because I need to see for myself their temperament and know it is what I can live with. The vast majority of my puppies go to homes where their only job is beloved companion but that is such an important job that I don't want them to let their families down. I work hard to give them a super start by socializing them to all sorts of people, noises, textures, objects so no matter what they encounter they approach life with confidence and curiosity.

This is what the breeders on this forum want for you. They want you to look beyond the cute puppy picture to think about whether you really are getting the companion you want.

It breaks my heart when I see dogs who are so terrified when they see new person they cringe and hide. Or when I see dogs who are obviously in pain from hip dysplasia. These are things that responsible breeders work hard to prevent and though sometimes things still pop up a responsible breeder is committed for the life of that dog through thick or thin.

[dmcarty]

There are plenty of real and reputable breeders within a couple of states of you that do have animals available and right now. A list like this can 'help' some when you have dog issues but your primary source of information should be your 'breeder' who appears to not know what she is doing and likely will not be any help to you.

[renaultf1]

cuttiepie-
i have to say i've been reading your threads and i just wanted to say i've been really impressed with your openness and learning curve. so many people get defensive and i think that's easy to do when confronted with less than stellar comments about a puppy that they are/planning on bringing home. the advice you've been given here, however, is spot on from caring breeders that have been in the breed for many, many years. however, i think every here also knows it's so easy to quickly fall in love with a basenji puppy, even from just looking at the pictures. but one of the biggest problems with basenjis is that many of the health problems (fanconi, pra) that plague this breed don't show up until the dogs are older. late-onset health problems for many breeds mean 4 or 6; however in our breed a "healthy" dog starting to show signs of fanconi or pra at 10 (or later) is not uncommon. everyone here wants to see you bring home the best possible puppy for your home so that you can enjoy your puppy for many, many healthy years to come. Good luck in whatever you decide.

+1 on this. And I'm very sorry for the stuff that you've gone thru with your dad and can appreciate you wanting and needing a companion as a result.

But please, read what lvoss has said right above. And then please read the other threads on this board from people with heart ache dealing with Fanconi afflicted dogs or even dogs that have come back "probably affected" and they are in waiting and worrying mode as to when their dog might show symptoms.

If your pup comes back "probably affected", stop for a minute. You've been through enough...with your father, with having to give up your other dog, with your dog who had kidney failure. You owe it to yourself to have a "healthy companion" and to start out with one with that can develop this horrible disease is doing a disservice to YOU and your chance to heal and move forward with some happiness. Here is your chance to slow down now that you have more information...while you wait for the results of the fanconi marker test on your pup.

Plane tickets can be changed for little or no money (and I've had plenty of success negotiating for $0 when there is supposed to be a fee) and can be done so the tickets are good for a year...trust me, I do it all the time. Please don't let your plane ticket be the deciding factor on taking a dog that may have health problems later on down the road.

[cuttiepie732]

The one thing that is bothering me is what my sister told me. This pup has a home now... If I say no then he doesn't. I am waiting for th test result, and I have talked with candyce for awhile now, and no offense to you guys, you have not. I really truly believe that she does have a good head on her shoulder. She might not be a top breeder, but she does care for these animals. Maybe not in your eyes I don't know. If you guys really want to, talk to her... idk

[Maya]

Im sorry for butting in here. Im new to the website and to the breed and i dont even own my basenji yet.

But i breed dogs, and i have bought and sold a few over the years and i can honestly say that you need to really sit down and think about this.

You have been through hell recently with your father and your dog, im sure most people on here couldn't even begin to understand what its like, but if you get a dog (of any breed, not just a basenji!) that is not health tested you are setting yourself up for more potential heartache. Is it really worth it?

Yes, he has a home now if you have him. But at what cost to you?? Im sorry, but sometimes you have to be selfish. You wouldnt keep buying dogs from shops and puppy farmers (not sure what you call them in america???) just because they have no home, would you?? It is not your responsibility to home this puppy, and maybe if the breeder was stuck with a litter of puppies they cant sell they might rethink their breeding practices... That is the only way these health problems can be controlled!

You have been given some great advice. I dont mean to be rude, but it seems like you rushed into getting this puppy without researching breeders properly, you do NOT have to buy the puppy if you are not 100% certain. Phone the breeder, tell her that for personal reasons you cant have the pup if you dont want to have the health testing discussion, and do some research for some GOOD breeders around you. Im sure people on here would be more than willing to help you find a nice, healthy basenji puppy.

Im sure you could cancel/change the flight, but even if not, i would not let the cost of a plane ticket cause me a lot of unnecessary problems in the future...

[wizard]

Cutiepie - I applaud you for wanting to help this pup (but that pup will always have a home unless put to sleep; to say it won't is playing on emotions). However, really give this extra thought (yes plane tickets are expensive but ...). Your "breeder" tried to help save these dogs (and she should be commended for that) but she is not experienced with basenjis, she admitted it. Ask her if she will refund part or all of your money if your pup develops fanconi's or other genetic problem; also ask her if she will cover all or part of the tests for these diseases (you can have them done at your local vet). Also research Fanconi's and other genetic diseases (it won't take long on the internet) and consider what you will do if your pup develops the symptoms. Then make your final decision.
Remember now everyone here wants the best for the breed and for you.

[agilebasenji]

As hard as it is to decide NOT to get a puppy right now (not to mention time and money spent), it would be waaay harder to deal with Fanconi years later (not to mention time and money spent).

[tanza]

The chances of you getting (or the breeder) the DNA test results for Fanconi back by the time you were planning on picking him up are at best really slim. It can take 4 to 6 wks, depending on how many they have to run, as they are done in groups.

[bellabasenji]

Sorry to say... I got my Bella from a petstore. She was a gift from my husband for my B-day. I would not trade her for the world, but I also would not buy from petshoppes or BYB's now that I know what I know about them. I love Bella dearly and she is really a good girl, but she also has a luxating patella that I know will get worse as she ages. This would not have happened with a responsible breeder. Also, I have the decision to make about DNA testing for fanconi... I am torn between having it done and possibly knowing she will have fanconi in the future (this would tear me up inside and I would worry constantly). So, since I am not DNA testing at this time, I strip test every month. I just wish so much I had more resources BEFORE we purchased her. I wish I would have had this wonderful group of people to talk to prior to getting a puppy! Bella is my first dog and she has taught me so much about Basenjis and dogs in general. The Basenji Slaves on this forum have taught me so much about the breed and breeding issues, they have much insight and experience that I value. So IMO if you want to "rescue" a pup, then check out some young Basenjis on Petfinder or a Basenji rescue group. I am talking from the other side here and still agree with previous posts about BYBs. And I definitely do NOT think they are saying any of this to be mean. We just want what is best for you...

[tanza]

Bellabasenji:.... As hard as maybe finding out that she could be affected... it is just as likely that she might be clear or a carrier. I know that it is hard... but really would be worth it... Remember also, anyone strip testing should test 3 to 4 days in a row as when they first start spilling, sometimes it will show up one day and not the next....

Take a deep breath, do the DNA test.... we are all here to support you, good/bad/whatever.....

[YodelDogs]

Sorry to say... I got my Bella from a petstore. She was a gift from my husband for my B-day. I would not trade her for the world, but I also would not buy from petshoppes or BYB's now that I know what I know about them. I love Bella dearly and she is really a good girl, but she also has a luxating patella that I know will get worse as she ages. This would not have happened with a responsible breeder.

If Bella is who I think she is, she has an almost identical pedigree to the sire of the puppy Cuttiepie is looking at.

[cuttiepie732]

If you guys know any tri males for a reasonable price let me know.

[dash]

Sorry to say... I got my Bella from a petstore. She was a gift from my husband for my B-day. I would not trade her for the world, but I also would not buy from petshoppes or BYB's now that I know what I know about them. I love Bella dearly and she is really a good girl, but she also has a luxating patella that I know will get worse as she ages. This would not have happened with a responsible breeder. Also, I have the decision to make about DNA testing for fanconi... I am torn between having it done and possibly knowing she will have fanconi in the future (this would tear me up inside and I would worry constantly). So, since I am not DNA testing at this time, I strip test every month. I just wish so much I had more resources BEFORE we purchased her. I wish I would have had this wonderful group of people to talk to prior to getting a puppy! Bella is my first dog and she has taught me so much about Basenjis and dogs in general. The Basenji Slaves on this forum have taught me so much about the breed and breeding issues, they have much insight and experience that I value. So IMO if you want to "rescue" a pup, then check out some young Basenjis on Petfinder or a Basenji rescue group. I am talking from the other side here and still agree with previous posts about BYBs. And I definitely do NOT think they are saying any of this to be mean. We just want what is best for you...


I second that. I too have a petstore B. I am lucky that dash has been healthy but I have learned a lot from this forum.

[tanza]

If you guys know any tri males for a reasonable price let me know.

What do you consider reasonable? Price is subjective... and most responsible breeders try to price their pups fairly, but you have to consider what it cost them to even breed that litter...

[cuttiepie732]

What is a normal cost?

[YodelDogs]

Confirmed...the numbers on the pedigree are ACA, not CKC.

[tanza]

What is a normal cost?

Again it is different for different parts of the country. My pups are 950.00 with 100.00 refunded with proof of spay/neuter. But prices are usually higher in California... however that is about the normal price out here. I know many breeders in the Mid-West that are anywhere from 650.00 to 850.00... and that to me is pretty reasonable. Remember, you get what you pay for... and in the end spend less from a responsible breeder....

All that said usually by now breeders have placed or have reservations for their pups. Usually responsible breeders do not even bred without a reservation list before breeding, instead of waiting till after the pups to advertise for homes. Look at it this way, responsible breeder do NOT let people pick a pup.. they take into consideration what someone would like, but in the end they match the puppy with the family. No exceptions. Remember the breeder has raised the litter therefore know the temperaments of the pups and have watch them since birth... they have gotten to know the homes/family where a pup is wanted... then they match the best fit of puppy to family.

[cuttiepie732]

Confirmed...the numbers on the pedigree are ACA, not CKC.

So is that better? Also if found a breeder named tammie wade. She is selling b's for 400 to 500, fanconi tested.

[YodelDogs]

So is that better?

No.

Also if found a breeder named tammie wade. She is selling b's for 400 to 500, fanconi tested.

Your best bet to find a responsible, ethical breeder is through the Basenji Club Of America.

The BCOA breeder's list (http://www.basenji.org/PUBLIC/BreederDirectory.htm)

[ChaseandZahrasmom]

Bella,

Well said, I am in the same position as you with a petstore dog that I did not know better about until after I got her. Now I would never buy from anything but a reputible responsible breeder. I too wish I would have had this forum before we got Zahra.


Sorry to say... I got my Bella from a petstore. She was a gift from my husband for my B-day. I would not trade her for the world, but I also would not buy from petshoppes or BYB's now that I know what I know about them. I love Bella dearly and she is really a good girl, but she also has a luxating patella that I know will get worse as she ages. This would not have happened with a responsible breeder. Also, I have the decision to make about DNA testing for fanconi... I am torn between having it done and possibly knowing she will have fanconi in the future (this would tear me up inside and I would worry constantly). So, since I am not DNA testing at this time, I strip test every month. I just wish so much I had more resources BEFORE we purchased her. I wish I would have had this wonderful group of people to talk to prior to getting a puppy! Bella is my first dog and she has taught me so much about Basenjis and dogs in general. The Basenji Slaves on this forum have taught me so much about the breed and breeding issues, they have much insight and experience that I value. So IMO if you want to "rescue" a pup, then check out some young Basenjis on Petfinder or a Basenji rescue group. I am talking from the other side here and still agree with previous posts about BYBs. And I definitely do NOT think they are saying any of this to be mean. We just want what is best for you...

[bellabasenji]

No, ACA is not better. And yes, that is where Bella's father is registered! WL's Alex (tri-color) is her SIRE. Is this pup she is looking at from one of the WL lines? If so, then I know the luxating patella is in the line, and rumor has it... so is fanconi.:( Bella's mother is KKDK Jammin Jo (red & white).

[bellabasenji]

Oh, and BTW my baby cost $900.00 as well. Even though she was pet store... they jack the prices up because they think the "puppy bug" will "infect people who see the little cuties!!!:mad: So I get a dog who has a sketchy background and health history and unfortunately supported the puppy mill and BYB industry.:mad::mad::mad: I wish I had known then... But I do love her dearly.

[YodelDogs]

The puppy's parents are called Poker and Dandee so this looks like a repeat of a previous breeding.

Posted with Cuttiepie's permission:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/rainbowspics/Gifs/Poker_Dandee_puppy_pedigree_pic.jpg

Notations: Texas Wallering Poker is not regsitered with the AKC but all of his ancestrors are. Texas Wallering Poker, his parents, and his grandparents are all registered with ACA. Sandy Dandee is registered with ACA. Her parents are not registered. Her grandparents are unknown.

[YodelDogs]

Comparison of Bella's pedigree:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/rainbowspics/Gifs/Bella_Bambino_Biamondi_pedigree_pic.jpg

with Poker's pedigree:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/rainbowspics/Gifs/Texas_Wallering_Poker_pedigree_pic.jpg

KKDK Wallering Wally and KKDK Jammin Jo are siblings. WL's Aubrey and WL's Ashley are siblings.

[tanza]

So is that better? Also if found a breeder named tammie wade. She is selling b's for 400 to 500, fanconi tested.

That would be Top Dog Basenjis, Bloodhounds, Coon Hounds... another pure for profit breeder. Add to that if you read her web site, she charges $100 if you want your puppy tested, interesting that the test only costs $65.00. I would not consider her a responsible breeder either....

[bellabasenji]

Any idea where all these WL lines came from. I know Bella's father may have been sold at an auction. The KKDK line I didn't know too much of until just now... Funny thing is, I just got word of someone in my state of WV breeding a WL dog. His name is WL's Todd. Bella's breeders were in Oklahoma, quite a distance!!!

[tanza]

Well Hestekin is a well know pure for profit breeder of many breeds, that sells to anyone with no spay/neuter contracts.... and without health testing. And talk about over price for the puppies... wowzer.... hard to believe anyone would pay their prices... of course by the time they are 4 to 6 months old and no longer cute babies.. the price is seriously reduced....

In that pedigree, Jack IV is by Dallers Zoo-Loo goes back to a heavy Fanconi line on the top side

[bellabasenji]

Well Hestekin is a well know pure for profit breeder of many breeds, that sells to anyone with no spay/neuter contracts.... and without health testing..... In that pedigree, Jack IV is by Dallers Zoo-Loo goes back to a heavy Fanconi line on the top side

You are referring to the KKDK side, then...

[tanza]

Any idea where all these WL lines came from. I know Bella's father may have been sold at an auction. The KKDK line I didn't know too much of until just now... Funny thing is, I just got word of someone in my state of WV breeding a WL dog. His name is WL's Todd. Bella's breeders were in Oklahoma, quite a distance!!!

WL's Todd is sired by Hestekin Hills Dynamite Tom, out of WL's Taylor D and that bitch on the Dam's side goes back to a Fanconi Affected dog by the name of Hofer Zipper. Hofer was known puppy mill now out of business with heavy Fanconi and Hip problems

[sharronhurlbut]

Its amazing what info is on the net now.
Glad you share this with everyone.

[bellabasenji]

So for Hestekin both the WL and KKDK are his main Basenji lines... Where is Hestekin located???

[lvoss]

Any idea where all these WL lines came from. I know Bella's father may have been sold at an auction.

The very simplistic answer is that the WL dogs are coming out of puppymills the reason why they are spread so far across the country is because they are being sold in Pet Stores and at auctions. There are so many because mills and BYBs will breed a bitch every heat cycle in order to make their money. Since these dogs are often living with multiple breeds, in close quarters the basenji girls will cycle more than once a year and be bred every time to churn out puppies irregardless of the toll it takes on them physically.

It is even more sickening to see people then post on websites like PuppyFind that they "saved" these dogs from horrible conditions only to continue to breed them and further tax their over stressed bodies.

[bellabasenji]

Yes, Lisa, it is sickening!:mad:

[tanza]

So for Hestekin both the WL and KKDK are his main Basenji lines... Where is Hestekin located???

Eau Claire, WI

[bellabasenji]

If you guys know any tri males for a reasonable price let me know.

Check this little guy out:

http://www.basenjirescue.org/DOGS/TX/TX-Banksy.asp

He is quite a distance away, but you were flying to get the other one... Of course you would have to fill out an application and be open to have a BRAT volunteer visit your home. He is young and handsome!!!

[renaultf1]

It is even more sickening to see people then post on websites like PuppyFind that they "saved" these dogs from horrible conditions only to continue to breed them and further tax their over stressed bodies.

Lisa...I agree so much with this. When Cutie posted that their pup's "breeder" had saved the 3 basenjis from the puppymill, it broke my heart to read that they had been rescued from a horrible, filthy situation, only to be put back into service. The whole puppymill/byb situation is just so sad.

[wizard]

Cuttiepie - there's a reputable breeder in KY that has two adult females he wants to rehome - one is a tricolor. Information is listed under the "Rescues and homes needed" section.

[gneigum]

Cutiepie - just my 2cents, but there has been a lot of good advice given here. I lost my 1st B when he was barely 6, & it broke my heart. The 2Bs I now have are 5 & 6. They are rehomed, retired show. Both are fixed - & I'm not into the puppy/training thing. They are both great companions & I wouldn't trade them for any other. They've only been with us since Sept/08. When you ask about price, in Canada avg puppy price (reputable breeder) is 950. To me, price should be last consideration to a healthy well tempered dog - no matter what breed. Again, just my 2cents.

G

[khanis]

It's ok. This is the first time I have actually bought a puppy from a breeder. Last time I had a dog I got her at petland...

Sorry, but you are going to the same source... these kind of people are what supply to Petland.


Out of 3 years of Basenji litters i have only had one puppy that had a slipped disk. The rest have been very healthy and passed all health exams. You will get a copy of the health exam when you get your puppy. Feel free to ask any more questions."

Well, the first Khani's Basenji litter was in 1969... there has NEVER been a slipped disk... and in a freakin puppy?? Sorry, that is a MAJOR SERIOUS issue.


Three weeks ago I made the flight reservation, puppy carry on, and the days off I needed. If she is an irresponsible breeder I can't help it. I decided to get him before I came on this forum. I just wanted to talk to people that are aware with basenji's. I found this forum by pure luck. I talked to a breeder near me, and she didn't have any puppies at the time, so I went for the second choice. I need an companion in my life, and I know I am not a breeder, or have an experience with this breed, but in my gut I just have this feeling that everything is going to work out ok... Like I said I am meeting her at her house, and looking at things and what not.

You just want a companion?
You could care less if it ends up unhealthy with serious issues??
Please go read this thread:
http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=4937.
Although I have never lived with a dog with hip dysplasia, subluxating patellas or the like, I ***have*** lived with both blind and fanconi-affected basenjis.
I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
Some days are good, some days are not.
The not-so-good days can be so bad that you may wish to never have another animal again.


Quite frankly, it doesn't appear that you have seriously looked that hard for a puppy. I know that if you just did a google search, you would find MANY breeders that have had and still do have puppies available.
I know that I am not the only one here, or listed with BCOA that has puppies now, as well as a litter in whelp.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

[bellabasenji]

:confused:Where is Cutiepie now? I don't think we have heard from her for a little while....

[dash]

The puppy's parents are called Poker and Dandee so this looks like a repeat of a previous breeding.

Posted with Cuttiepie's permission:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/rainbowspics/Gifs/Poker_Dandee_puppy_pedigree_pic.jpg

Notations: Texas Wallering Poker is not regsitered with the AKC but all of his ancestrors are. Texas Wallering Poker, his parents, and his grandparents are all registered with ACA. Sandy Dandee is registered with ACA. Her parents are not registered. Her grandparents are unknown.


Dash has a similar lineage. Which makes sense. Dixie maxwell was his breeder and WL's Aubrey and KKDK Wandering Wally was his parents.

I have a question. I saw a Sheila Maxwell on puppy find. Any relation? They are both in OK. I think.

[tanza]

I would think they are most likely related

[Ambered]

:sigh: this thread breaks my heart. i hope cutiepie is not discouraged from posting. the forum can seem harsh at times. i hope that woman who "saved" those dogs has the sense not to breed them or any dogs again. i am always hoping people will do the right thing when considering the bigger picture...

[dmcarty]

"WL's Todd is sired by Hestekin Hills Dynamite Tom, out of WL's Taylor D and that bitch on the Dam's side goes back to a Fanconi Affected dog by the name of Hofer Zipper. Hofer was known puppy mill now out of business with heavy Fanconi and Hip problems"

Hestikin Hills has an interesting storyline - her original stuff came from Betty Sweeter in Foley MN who has been in the newspaper several times for her sick and dying dogs of many breeds. She has significant fanconi, hip dysplasia AND the only to my knowledge recorded 2 cases of Von Wildebrands disease (of course don't know if there are more unless they find me.) VWD is a Doberman blood disorder.

Her HH's stuff came from there and then she got a Budlight grandson by misrepresenting herself - breeder tried to get the dog back through the courts so she showed him a couple of times to demonstrate that she shows and sent him up to Canada to get a Canadian CH. She bred him a lot and as soon as she could have bitches where the Sweeter stuff didn't show up as much she pulled her significantly fanconi bitches of the internet. She then got 2 males from the N'Har stud because that breeder did not believe anyone who told her the kind of operation she has. (she has also has similar difficulties with the IG clubs - and was taking in rescues and breeding them from what I've been told.

She has done enough breeding now that some of the 'danger' dogs don't show up anymore and she is careful on what pedigrees that she posts. HH Dynomite Tom ended up at an auction I believe in MO along with at least 2 other Hestikin HIlls dogs - this is what she appears to do with animals that she can't sell.

On her website she will tell you that she is with the Wisconsin Humane Society and that she is a CGC evaluator (that requires that you fill out a form and mail it in with some money)

She prefers to show in Canada - and preferes to register with APR and thinks that basenji clubs are naughty mean people.

She is in Wisconsin - and I actually met her at a show and she showed me a pedigree and I said at least it's better than what she had before and she said what do you mean - and I told her the bitches names and she denied she ever had them. (I had copies of their pedigrees from her site.)

In any event - there are some advantages of being older than dirt and one of them is - I have a long history of some of these names.

[dmcarty]

And there are 2 lovely litters in Indiana one is 3/4 african I believe and there are 2 brindles and the rest red&Whilte and the other litter is all red and white - all from well bred and well tested animals - with responsible breeders.

But that's how it goes.

[sharronhurlbut]

We can share all we know. Its up to the person to decide what they are going to do.

[dcmclcm4]

I am late to this discussion but if anyone is interested, I can post the history of WL's Kennel, Walter and Lois Choate. I am also familiar with Dixie Maxwell. I have met and spoken with both of them at dog auctions.

Jennifer

[bellabasenji]

Jennifer, I seem to remember you from somewhere... is it from the pedigree database??? I am interested to learn more of the WL line and history. Seems as though this bunch has branched out like crazy... And to be honest, it is not a good thing! My Bella is one of the offspring of the WL & KKDK clan. I have to worry about her health because of poor ancestry... Please do share the info with me. I am going to try to get a link to my email on my page, if you would like to email me personally!

[dash]

Jennifer, I seem to remember you from somewhere... is it from the pedigree database??? I am interested to learn more of the WL line and history. Seems as though this bunch has branched out like crazy... And to be honest, it is not a good thing! My Bella is one of the offspring of the WL & KKDK clan. I have to worry about her health because of poor ancestry... Please do share the info with me. I am going to try to get a link to my email on my page, if you would like to email me personally!


I could be wrong, but the ID is the same as her email so I am pretty sure this is the Jennifer who works with the auctions for BRAT. If so, she was going to send Dash's info to the database.

When I spoke with her recently I was amazed how she kept all these dogs names and lines in her head. We are so lucky to have such amazing resources at our disposal.

[dcmclcm4]

Just to correct a misunderstanding, I do not rescue Bs from the auctions for BRAT. Earlier this year I picked up some Bs at the OH auction location but they were not sold at the auction and most of them did go to BRAT. They were a breeder/dealer/broker turnover. I have one at my place who I considered to have too much of a socialization problem to go to BRAT. I am presently fostering an elderly B, 15 years old, for BRAT.

I consider myself an independent B rescuer who usually rescues from the auctions. I do have a Petfinder account, Jen's Rescue, but my adoptions are usually done by word of mouth. Some of my Bs may have some health issues, most are usually minor. I do most of the hereditary testing on my rescues, including the Fanconi DNA testing, thyroid testing, CERF eye exams, and hip x-rays, read by a vet only, not sent in to OFA for reading. The hip x-rays I have only done if I notice a gait/running problem or if the B might do lure coursing. I do not have the other tests turned in to OFA for publication since the extra cost would add up to quite a bit for all of the rescues but I keep all the records .

One thing I recommend is to teach your dogs at a young age to take pills. I teach my rescues by giving them brewers yeast tablets coated with canned food. All of my dogs come running to the kitchen when I say "pills". This helps if your dog ever has to take antibiotics, thyroid medication, pain medication, and/or the pills for Fanconi. I consider it just as important as crate training. My last one and my present one with Fanconi were/are wonderful pill takers and I believe this has helped them live longer than some other Bs with Fanconi. (This probably should be posted on another forum thread.)

[tar9091]

Hestekin Hills has an interesting storyline which is all made up and fabricated by dmcarty and Sally Wournus.
The real story line is: Hestekin Hills got her first 4 Basenji dogs from a breeder in Neillsville, WI named Lynn Evans. Lynn Evans had purchased 2 males and 2 females from a South Dakota breeder (one male was tom) Lynn Evans had big intentions to show her new dogs but quickly decided that showing was not the fun that she was expecting it to be. The basenji show group was down right mean to her!
Hestekin Hills is not associated with, not friends with, and does not deal with Betty Sweeter (this is one of the many lies made up by dmcarty) Evans Diamond Dutches, Evans Diamond Dezaray, Hestekin Hills Dynamite Tom, and Evans Diamond Drummer. Drummer (Toms sire) was adopted out to a family in Hudson. Tom was adopted out to a breeder/show home in Oklahoma where the breeder quickly grew, and after a run in with dmcarty and friends decided to no longer show. 8 years later this breeder sold some of her dogs by way of an auction, this was not Hestekin Hills who put Tom in the auction, and there were no other Hestekin Hills dog in this action as dmcarty claims. Tom was picked up by the rescue and place in a great pet home where they love him dearly. This family contacted Hestekin Hills after they adopted Tom and they have kept in touch with each other since:

-----Original Message-----
Hi Teresa!
Nice to hear from you. Tom is doing fantastic! We love him so much, that we added a female Basenji puppy to our family in May 2007. Tom and Phoebe are best pals. They enjoy walks in the park, tug-o-war with each other, and 500s in the backyard (and sometimes in the house!). Tom doesn't act like he's ten! Both dogs sleep with our 11-year-old daughter and will snuggle with whoever is sitting in the recliner in our living room. Basically spoiled rotten! Have a happy new year!
Jamie D. Honeycutt
-----End Of Original Message-----

Her HH's stuff came from there and then she got a Budlight grandson by misrepresenting herself
Hestekin Hills did not misrepresent herself in the purchase of Hestekin Hills Budlight King. The original contract and bill of sale can be faxed to anyone who wants it. King was delivered by Karen Kutcha to Teresa Hestekin and Karen was happy to see him going to a breeder/show home. After King attended a couple of shows and dmcarty got a look at him dmcarty was scared she would get beat (King is the perfect specimen of a Basenji) Dmcarty at that time started making up stories and lies about this great dog. She contacted Karen Kutcha and talked her into taking Teresa Hestekin to court, where Karen Kutchas tried to claim that King was not paid for. The original bill of sale/contract was presented at the time of court and the judge slapped Karen Kutcha on the hand and scoulded her for lying but Hestekin Hills did not file another action against Karen for the lie. Teresa Hestekin, thinking that something happened to Karen Kutchas dog offered Karen a pick puppy from an upcoming litter (just to be nice). Even after this great effort to be nice to Karen Kutcha, Karen proceeded to send threats to Teresa Hestekin stating that Karen or a friend of Karens (meaning dmcarty and Sally Wuornos) would poison or steal King if they seen him at a show, so for the safety and well being of King he finished his Canadian Championship and was not shown again at AKC events. Anyone who loves their dog would have done the same thing for his protection wouldn't they? Now where is sportsmanship in all of this? If you go to basenjipedigrees.com you can see the 3 litters that King has sired. King is now 9 years old, and in these 9 years there have been a ton of tall tales developed by this Basenji club.

Hestekin Hills has never had any issues with the Italian Greyhound club as dmcarty claims. The Italian Greyhound club is a group of wonderful people who are honest, helpful and have sportsmanship values (yes they believe in sportsmanship)
Teresa Hestekin is a CGC evaluator she holds 2 clinics per year at her kennel/home.

Teresa Hestekin registers her dogs with only AKC (she does not use APR as dmcarty claims) She shows AKC mostly but when her dogs life is threated by poor sports she will show in Canada.

At one show Teresa Hestekin met dmcarty, and wanted to talk about pedigrees and breeding dmcarty was not helpful but was rude, crude and down right nasty (this was 9 years of so ago) Another basenji breeder confronted Teresa Hestekin and told her that dmcarty is a poor sport and hates to loose, she is mean to all new comers so no one will show against her! That is why in this area there are so few Basenji dogs in the show ring. (Where is the sportsmanship in that?)

[lvoss]

I don't know if tar9091 is Teresa Hestekin talking about herself in the third person or someone else who has chosen to use the same ID as Teresa's email address. To whomever it may, if anyone has gotten the idea that Teresa Hestekin uses alternative registries it is from Teresa's own site that they would have gotten that impression. http://www.hestekinhills.com/Baa.htm

It clearly states as point 1 of My Affliations and Registries that Teresa Hestekin is in good standing with AKC, APR, UKC, CKC, RKF, UKCI, and more, how can you be in good standing with an organization you do not use or are not a part of?

I have no idea which side is telling the truth but would urge anyone to do their own research and look for verifiable facts such as using the OFA database to confirm health testing is done, making sure that both parents of any litter are clearly listed by either registered name or number so they can be looked up in the AKC and OFA database.

[etzbseder]

How would you look to verify health concerns that aren't on the OFA? Is there any way to do so? I'm thinking mainly of checking for an autoimmune problem.

[lvoss]

Autoimmune Thyroiditis is an OFA test but it is only a semi-open database meaning only normal results are required to be listed. There is no way to currently check for other autoimmune diseases but there are some breeders who have made their dogs status public and that information can be verified if you know where to look.

OFA's position about lack of test results is that if a dog does not have a test result listed then they should be considered to have the disorder.

[tar9091]

Why do you people insist on the lies?
Dogs being shown with these clubs, and being involved in all of these clubs is involvement! APR has Teresa Hestekin speaking at seminars for them, this I would assume is involvement is it not?

Email Teresa Hestekin directly and ask for the receipts and emails, she has proof that will knock your socks off, her proof involves many basenji club members (some not mentioned in the previous write up)

and on the website you quote: "with each puppy it clearly states: AKC registered"

[tar9091]

Hestekin Hills sells puppies for about $575.00 each is that high? How much are you puppies?

[dmcarty]

People can believe what they choose to believe - I will say that I have never met at a show anyone named Lyn Evans and will also say that the basenji community in MN is so small that we all know each other - new faces are always greeted. I have not been to anywhere in Oklahoma to run in to anyone 'getting started in basenjis' in Oklahoma and seldom show outside of my immediate area - quite frankly have not been in a show ring with any basenjis for quite sometime aside from the occasional appearance with a veteran at a specialty.

The information I have gotten through the years has been directly from the website of the people in question. I have nothing to gain, no puppies to sell and no reason to make up stories and those who know me know that I am far to busy to be bothered making things up.

People can choose to listen to warning about breeders who have been less than honest or not - purchasing anything is Caveat Emptor (buyer beware). It just makes me sad to know that some of the animals purchased in spite of warnings will have sad owners on the list or other lists looking for help.

The one thing that has saved this breed from the fate of many others with horrid genetic diseases is open and honest sharing of information. I hope it can continue

[tar9091]

https://www.akc.org/pdfs/AKC_code_of_sportsmanship.pdf
AKC Code of Sportsmanship link for those who wish to read it!

And here is another interesting quote from Hestekin Hills website:
Dog showing can be an entertaining sport, it should be fun for the experienced and also the beginner. I personally feel that it is highly unethical to openly attack, embarrass or belittle anyone whether they are experienced in the ring or a new comer to the ring. Why can't we all be good sports about showing and competing? Yes showing is a sport, it can be very competitive, but sometimes I can't help wondering where the "SPORT" in sportsmanship ever went?

Link here to read: AKC Code of Sportsmanship: https://www.akc.org/pdfs/AKC_code_of_sportsmanship.pdf

I do not make the practice of bad mouthing other breeders, and I will not answer personal questions about other breeders. I will however offer my aid with any problems concerning health, behavior, house training or any other puppy issue you may encounter, whether the puppy was from me or another breeder is not the issue. It is important that you get the best possible dog you can as a dog of any breed is a lifetime commitment. A well bred puppy will hopefully save you expensive vet bills and the heartache of health problems in your time together.

The reason a dog has so many friends is that he wags his tail instead of his tongue.
-Anonymous

CHOOSING A BREEDER: Choosing a breeder is totally up to the purchaser. It is highly unethical to openly attack another breeder to anyone, and if you find one of these sorts of breeders I recommend staying clear of them. Please do not email me asking me about another breeder or what I think of their dogs, it honestly is up to you to make that determination of which breeder you want to deal with. It is not my place to judge the creditability or honesty of any breeder.

You can read more online at: http://hestekinhills.com/Ba6.htm

Hmmm someone out there has standards!

[tanza]

I don't know if tar9091 is Teresa Hestekin talking about herself in the third person or someone else who has chosen to use the same ID as Teresa's email address. To whomever it may, if anyone has gotten the idea that Teresa Hestekin uses alternative registries it is from Teresa's own site that they would have gotten that impression. http://www.hestekinhills.com/Baa.htm

It clearly states as point 1 of My Affliations and Registries that Teresa Hestekin is in good standing with AKC, APR, UKC, CKC, RKF, UKCI, and more, how can you be in good standing with an organization you do not use or are not a part of?

I have no idea which side is telling the truth but would urge anyone to do their own research and look for verifiable facts such as using the OFA database to confirm health testing is done, making sure that both parents of any litter are clearly listed by either registered name or number so they can be looked up in the AKC and OFA database.

And that the sires and dams are DNA for parentage with AKC so that the pup you get can be proven to be of the parents listed on the papers.

[Lynne]

Hello -heard I was mentioned here thought I'd check in...
The answer to the previous question - my dogs came from South Dakota (that breeder is no longer breeding)
I went to a couple shows WI and MN and never met a basenji breeder I cared to keep in contact with - quit the breed - due to mean people! All is true!
Signing out now - as I don't care to bash people like the rest of you!

[Alex]

Let's stay on topic and please keep it civil. Bashing other members and posting personal emails is not allowed here.

This is a forum for the discussion of Basenjis, not a dueling society. If you feel attacked, please report it to the admin and then ignore the poster. The moderator will take care of the situation. Remember, however much you were provoked, if you attack a poster personally then you are just as guilty of breaking the rules.

[tar9091]

And that the sires and dams are DNA for parentage with AKC so that the pup you get can be proven to be of the parents listed on the papers.

So Pat Fragassi of Tanza Basenjis what you are saying is that the sire and dam you list on your AKC papers is not the actual sire and dam to the puppies you place on these AKC papers? Why would you do this? Would you not be kicked out of AKC for doing this? Everyone with a puppy should DNA it to find out who it's parents are as it appears some Basenji club breeders might not be putting down the right parents right? Again, why would you do this?

[lvoss]

No, what she is saying is that buyers should look for parents that have AKC DNA profiles so they can verify independently by doing their own DNA profile and requesting and AKC DNA certified pedigree that their puppy really is from the parents stated on the papers.

[tar9091]

so you are saying that all breeders are lying on their AKC papers then right?
Why would breeders lie about who the parents to a litter really are?

Is this something that all Basenji club breeders are told to do?

[tar9091]

oh, dah, it just hit me: you put down that the parents are from champion _____, when the pups really are not from that champion at all but some unknown dog! Still would you not get in trouble with the kennel club for that?
I can see the idea here, your champion female would not get saggy and fat...

Why would you not just be truthful and say who the correct parents are though? Is it really that big of a deal?

If you are going to take the time, effort and money to register the litter wouldn't you be honest enough to list the right parents?

[tanza]

So Pat Fragassi of Tanza Basenjis what you are saying is that the sire and dam you list on your AKC papers is not the actual sire and dam to the puppies you place on these AKC papers? Why would you do this? Would you not be kicked out of AKC for doing this? Everyone with a puppy should DNA it to find out who it's parents are as it appears some Basenji club breeders might not be putting down the right parents right? Again, why would you do this?

Give me a break, that is not what I said, I said that people wanting a puppy should not only check OFA for health testing, but that the Sire and Dam are DNA'ed also to verify parentage. Did I make any reference to myself? I think not and in fact, I didn't even make any reference to you...

[tanza]

oh, dah, it just hit me: you put down that the parents are from champion _____, when the pups really are not from that champion at all but some unknown dog! Still would you not get in trouble with the kennel club for that?
I can see the idea here, your champion female would not get saggy and fat...

Why would you not just be truthful and say who the correct parents are though? Is it really that big of a deal?

If you are going to take the time, effort and money to register the litter wouldn't you be honest enough to list the right parents?

Seems to me like you know more about all the things you "could" do then I could ever come up with???

[tar9091]

And that the sires and dams are DNA for parentage with AKC so that the pup you get can be proven to be of the parents listed on the papers.

Seems to me like you know more about all the things you "could" do then I could ever come up with???

If that were the case all puppies would be from your champion dogs! Oh wait, yours are though are they not?
Or at least your paperwork says they are, hmmm now I wonder.

[lvoss]

What are you talking about, what does being a Champion have to do with obtaining a DNA Parentage Profile? Your posts don't make any sense.

[tar9091]

And that the sires and dams are DNA for parentage with AKC so that the pup you get can be proven to be of the parents listed on the papers.

In your post you said (shown above) What I was asking was why would any breeder fib about who the pups parents are? What is to be gained? And why would anyone actually do that?

[tanza]

If that were the case all puppies would be from your champion dogs! Oh wait, yours are though are they not?
Or at least your paperwork says they are, hmmm now I wonder.

Yes, puppies that I have bred or co-bred with the exception of one parent from one litter are from Champion Parents with DNA profiles with AKC. Easy enough to check, as the offspring has been DNA also, proving that their parents are their parents as listed.

[tar9091]

and you went as far as to varify the pups DNA because you didn't know for sure who the parents were or ??

[Vanessa]

This thread has gone completely off topic. Twice we have had to come in and moderate. This thread became an attack on other forum members/breeders which Basenji Forums does NOT allow.

Please refrain from doing so, otherwise this thread will be closed. If it continues the forum will remove members who are violating the rules.

[Alex]

Closing thread.