Probably Carrier - sigh of relief ...

[ChaseandZahrasmom]

Zahra's results came in today and she is Probably Carrier of Fanconi Syndrome. Since she is a pet store dog I was sure the results were going to come back that she was affected but I am so happy that she is just Probably a Carrier. It has been a stressful month waiting for the results to come back. but I am so happy! :)

[mauigirl]

Congratulations! What a relief, I'm happy for you :)

[snorky998]

What GREAT news Jenn. That had to be a huge relief for you.

[Duke]

So happy for you!

[sharronhurlbut]

Great., its wonderful you know your b will never come down with Fanconis.
Yea!!!!!!!!!!

[agilebasenji]

must feel like you can breath again. i'm glad for you!

[tanza]

Great news......

[seko]

Good news for you and Zahra :cool:

[Janneke]

That's great news! I'm happy for you :)

[Andrew]

Oooooh yay!!!!!!!!!! I cried when Booger came back carrier, so I know exactly what you're feeling! Sooooo happy for you!!!!! Congratulations!

[Schouiffy]

congrats!!!!!!

[pedro]

how do i read the test? if a b is a carrier can i breed him?.

[Andrew]

If you get a test through OFA (the only way to get one), the results will come back very clearly marked. Either "Probably Carrier" "Probably Clear" "Probably Affected" or "Indeterminate between Clear and Carrier." Its very difficult to misinterpret the results.
A basenji that is a carrier can be bred (technically, any basenji can be bred, regardless of results), but the question is, why? You would not want to breed an affected dog because it not only perpetuates carriers of Fanconi, but it also puts stress on that individual dog, which makes it more likely Fanconi symptoms will show themselves sooner rather than later.
A carrier can be bred, if done carefully, and only if that particular individual has a lot to offer the breed. That's a matter of opinion amongst breeders; some will never breed a carrier just to avoid the risk of perpetuating Fanconi, and some will breed a carrier to a clear if the dog is a particularly remarkable dog conformation, performance, temperament, health wise.
So, regardless what your dog's test results are, Fanconi results are not the only factor you want to look at for breeding.

This is my layman's understanding; I'm sure the breeders can chime in and give you better insight into their own opinions and practices.

[pedro]

hi, if i breed him he would only have to be clear, NOT A CARRIER!, and the thing with the ribbons and trophies mean nothing to me it dosen't make the dog any less better!!, then one that has the ribbons or trophies! or if you could explaine this more to me what id the difference!!!.

[lvoss]

Actually, titles and accomplishments do mean more than just a ribbon or trophy. Conformation is a venue designed to evaluate breeding stock based on their physical resemblance to the standard. Conformation is what makes a basenji look like a basenji so a dog that has earned a conformation championship has shown that it conforms to our written standard. Performance venues like lure coursing, sprint racing, and nose work, show that a dog has the instincts to do what the breed has historically done, hunt. Basenjis that have earned titles in these venues have demonstrated competency in chasing things by sight or locating by scent.

In addition to competition, it is also important that breeding stock is able to pass their health clearances. The Basenji Club of America recommends that at a minimum dogs have the Fanconi DNA test, OFA hips, yearly CERF exams, and thyroid testing as recommended by OFA. Dogs with all this testing are awarded a CHIC designation on the OFA website. Here is an example of what a CHIC certified dog's listing looks like, http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1199808#animal

[pedro]

okay i still don't get it there is no difference from that basenji then mine other then the basenji had all the test done already whatch i'm going to do one at a time. but other then that there is no difference between them!. i guess that's why i don't get this dog show thing here!!.trying to understand this better !!.

[tanza]

okay i still don't get it there is no difference from that basenji then mine other then the basenji had all the test done already whatch i'm going to do one at a time. but other then that there is no difference between them!. i guess that's why i don't get this dog show thing here!!.trying to understand this better !!.

Have you had your Basenji evaluated by others educated in the breed? People that have been in the breed and bred for years and years? Difference between a dog that has a conformation title and performance titles is that the owners laid in all on the line to show that the dog they have produced is of the quality that makes up our breed standard. And even that said, it doesn't mean that every dog should be bred. I have many a champion but really didn't feel they had anything more to offer the breed, so they were spayed/neutered and were and are great family companions.

Also it is not only important to test the dog that you want to breed, but the mate needs to be well test too. And most important, regardless of you testing your dog is to know the lines behind your dog and the dog you are breeding to. We only have DNA testing for Fanconi and HA, we have lots of other health concerns that we think are recessive, so not know the lines (offspring/siblings/grand sire/dam/great grand sire/dam) you have not a clue what might pop up. By know much information as you can get, you can make an educated decision in breeding.

[pedro]

so basicly the only difference is this is a chow basenji and mine isn't!??? that's what i'm getting here. i must be just stupid here on this stuff!!>this is frustratting!

[EskiLovr]

A show dog has been evaluated by experts within the breed. Every time a dog wins it means they are the best representation of the breed in the ring on that day. It means they possess the characteristics of the breed. The whole point of showing a dog is to find the ones that are the BEST representations of the breed standard.

And for the record, I don't show my dog, never will. He's neutered, even though he tested Fanconi clear, and I think he's perfect in every way. I won't breed him, because I don't know enough about his pedigree to be certain that his good traits would breed totally true.

[lvoss]

How well do you know the standard? If someone asked you to describe your dog's conformation strengths what would you tell them?

I show my dogs in conformation and know their strengths and weaknesses. When I am planning a breeding I can talk explicitly with the owners of the dogs I am considering about what I am looking for and what my dogs faults are. Part of being able to do that is having gone to enough shows and seen lots of dogs in person to learn what I was looking at.

As for performance competency, if you aren't actually working your dog how do you know it is able to perform the job. What are criteria are you using to measure proficiency?

[pedro]

ya one lady'; but when i said i got him from a pet shop she said right off the bat get him fixed!!. but brfore i said that she did say i should try to show him because of the way he automaticly stand like a show basenji!!, then i told her the pet shop stuff and that's what she told me!!!!!!. it's like saying one thing and then saying another just becsuse of where i got him from!!!. thats b.s sorry for the bad mouth here!!.

[pedro]

i just don't know what to do and how to show him and where to go!!>

[tanza]

And you have to be ready to "hear" faults that your dog might have and be open enough to understand what people are saying. If you can't admit to the faults on your dog, you will never be a good breeder, because the reason for breeding is to improve the breed.

As far as shows, find some in your area, go watch the Basenjis show, study the standard and then "honestly" compare your dog to what you see in the ring.

[sharronhurlbut]

Pedro, do you have a basenji breed club close to you? That would be the first place to get an idea of what the "standard" is for a show basenji.
Now, I just do rescue, so I have had and loved some b's who were not even close to show standards. Showing makes no difference to the love we show to the b's we have. BUT to improve the breed, showing is a part of breeding any dog. Because its no good just to breed... Its often not as easy as it seems and the breeder who isn't informed often ends up with puppies/adults in rescue..and that is something I know a LOT about.
We just took in a family of b's, puppies and adults because the owners thought they could make some $$ on these dogs...not only could they NOT make any $$$ they couldn't sell the puppies. I know your new and don't "know" us, but we are really trying to help you. We are trying to help you and your new b. Its all about the dog to me.

[snorky998]

Pedro, welcome to the forums!! (Do we have a slight language barrier here?:)) I hope you keep posting. I respect the fact that you are asking questions. That's how we all learn--questions, questions, and more questions.

I think what most here are saying is please continue to train and show your pup, but please reconsider any breeding with your dog until all tests are done.

It's a fun trip if you take it..... find sire and dam names. Check in at Sally's site,
http://www.pedigrees.zandebasenjis.com/
follow the links, and you can see the whole lineage picture.

Also (and most importantly) go to the OFFA site... http://www.offa.org/ and see if you can find your pup's sire &/or dam. The information there is not only enlightening, it can be life saving.

BTW...you are correct....There is no 'love' difference between a tested or non-tested dog; they are both loved in the same way, with the same intensity. The love never falters....But.... if you check out all the resources available to you, you can ensure or enable your Basenji to live to a long and loving life with you.

Just my thoughts, Pedro!! Dawn

[sharronhurlbut]

Nice post Dawn, wish I had been so kind.

[pedro]

thanks i know your tryying to help me and i really do respect that soo much i don't want to breed just for the money or for the heck of it ! so your help is very welcome here!

[pedro]

i wouldnt get him breed with out all the test being done!! thanks for your help.

[pedro]

i wouldnt breed with out all the test being doone.

[tanza]

i wouldnt breed with out all the test being doone.

And so why do you think that he should be bred?

[pedro]

i would like to breed him to have puppies from him. not for money but i know a few people that would puppies from him. and i have told them i know nothing of his back ground other then the names if the 5 generation of him. and that i would have to get him tested for some health problems to see if he has then!. why do you breed your basenji's!?

[Kipawa]

What a relief! Now you can look towards lots of happy days with your new pup.

[pedro]

what a relife!? what do you mean by that??.

[lvoss]

I believe the person is responding to what this thread was really about, someone's test results that came back Carrier meaning their dog will never be symptomatic for the disease.

Though Carriers can produce puppies that are Affected if bred irresponsibly, they themselves will not develop the disease.

[tanza]

i would like to breed him to have puppies from him. not for money but i know a few people that would puppies from him. and i have told them i know nothing of his back ground other then the names if the 5 generation of him. and that i would have to get him tested for some health problems to see if he has then!. why do you breed your basenji's!?

As already stated, responsible breeders bred to improve the breed.

[Nemo]

i just don't know what to do and how to show him and where to go!!>

Hey Pedro,

Hopefully these links below can help make dog shows a little more understandable...at least what the judge is looking for. I'm not a breeder but I've been doing dog shows for less than a year now, and it definitely a lot more confusing from the outside looking in. I do it for the fun, it's a good bonding experience for me and my dog, and also keeps her socialized around other people and dogs. To give you an idea what the judges are looking for, here are some links regarding the breed standard that people have been talking about (if this has been posted before, i apologize, I'm getting lost in all the related threads).

This is an excerpt from a well know book which is an interpretation of the breed standard, that I think is helpful for the beginner (definitely was helpful for me). Unfortunately, the excerpt does not have a lot of non-ideal examples to compare too but you can get some idea.

http://www.basenjiclubofcanada.com/BCOC-BobCole.html

This is the actual standard. This is what defines what a basenji is (appearance and structure) and what breeders strive towards in their breeding program. This is what the judge is thinking about in a dog show when he/she is looking at the dogs.

http://www.basenji.org/Basenji%20Standard/Index.htm

If you look over this and compare your basenji and other basenjis to it, it will help develop your "eye" for the breed...which IMO probably takes a number of years to be able to truly appreciate all the nuances.

[Nemo]

Zahra's results came in today and she is Probably Carrier of Fanconi Syndrome. Since she is a pet store dog I was sure the results were going to come back that she was affected but I am so happy that she is just Probably a Carrier. It has been a stressful month waiting for the results to come back. but I am so happy! :)

I'm so happy for you and Zahra!

[pedro]

hi, now if you go to this page and scroll down to carectoristics on the rightside you will see a basenji and it like just like mine!!.i get asked everytime someone see's him if i have him in show and 1 lady that did do showings asked me that , but i said no! she then said why!!!?????? like i was crazy for not doing it!!.

[pedro]

i just wish ther was someone close out here that could look at him and see if he has the potensual to be in show.!!

[sharronhurlbut]

Pedro, what page are you speaking about?

[Nemo]

Pedro, what page are you speaking about?

I think she is referring to the link of the breed standard I posted.

[pedro]

yep, yep, yep! that's it!!!>

[pedro]

is it true that basenji's normally get along better with the opposit sex?>!!

[tanza]

is it true that basenji's normally get along better with the opposit sex?>!!

It is typically recommended that it is best to male/females rather then two males or two bitches. Obviously if male/females they are both spayed/neutered.... as accidents happen.