Hestekin

[wrx227wrc]

Hello-

We have been looking at adding another puppy to our family and have come across Hestekin Kennels, in Eau Claire, WI. What do you guys think about their dogs? Does anyone own one of her puppies?

As always, thanks for the input!

-The McAskins

[wrx227wrc]

Excuse my lack of research before posting previously. It appears on the OFA site that some of her dogs are fanconi affected. Does anyone else have any experience with her?

[tanza]

My personal opinion... I would look for a more responsible breeder

Please visit http://www.basenji.org/learn/ScreeningBreeders.htm to learn how to find a responsible breeder

[bellabasenji]

Simply said... please do more research and reconsider!

[wrx227wrc]

I should have read more! Silly me.

[tanza]

Not Silly... .... but there are better breeders out there.. IMO... but you might have to wait till Fall breeding season.. this is a great time to contact breeders, visit, talk to them... and then decide on one that you really like.. and get on their reservation list. And like you have already done... do the research... on health testing...

[bellabasenji]

It's OK, you can start by taking a look at the BCOA breeders list:

http://www.basenji.org/Index.htm

[wrx227wrc]

I have looked at that list and will stick to it. Thanks guys!

[Quercus]

Where in MI are you? We may be planning a litter for next year; the bitch I am thinking of breeding will be five...so it is kind do it in the next couple years or don't do it at all.

Kelli, also here on the BForums may be planning a litter next year.

[Nemo]

There is a concentration of basenji breeders around the Milwaukee/Chicago area if you are on that side of MI or the UP.

[wrx227wrc]

We were considering getting a strictly pet quality puppy now if we found one that was within our budget and from a responsible breeder (probably not going to happen, but I am hopeful). I know how you guys feel about the financial being a consideration, but for us it is. The timing is perfect for us right now as my husband is out of work and home to potty train. Things financially will be just fine when I finish my degree next year, but spending $1000 on a dog right now is not realistic. Nor do I know if we could ever really stomach that.

We would really like to get a rescue but with Piggy being such a dominant female I don't know how that will work. She tends to be fine with puppies but not older dogs and definitely not females.

Quercus, we are in Grand Rapids. We may be in the market next season and I will certainly keep you and Kelli in mind.

[wrx227wrc]

Andrea, who are you breeding?

[kiroja]

Would that be Luna Andrea? :)

I would like to try to have a litter this year too. But I will have to see how things play out, it may not be feasable.

I would have to agree with Pat, keep searching and doing your homework. And I know that prices seem high, but in most cases you will save a lot more than the purchase price of a dog from heartache and vet bills when getting a dog from someone who doesn't put the same work into the quality, temperament, and health of the dogs they produce. You know the old saying, "you get what you pay for". I can totally relate to doing dogs on a budget! And keep in mind, that responsible breeders aren't making any money with those prices. All that and then some have gone into the health, care, and socialization of the puppies and parent(s) and all the general costs of raising babies. Those that do make money with those prices or lower ones are doing so because they have cut a lot of corners that could be very detrimental to your new family member.

From where you are, there's probably nobody in the surrounding area that you would want to look at breeder wise, but a fair travel gives you some great people in OH, IN, IL, or even South WI. There are a few nice MI people but no one that breeds regularly.

Having fanconi dogs in and of itself isn't alarming. There are certainly great breeders that just didn't get lucky when breeding in the past. What should be concerning is anyone who, now that the marker test is out, is still just using the urine test to breed or not testing at all, or doing any breedings that don't involve at least one CLEAR parent.

[kiroja]

And don't give up the thought of rescue either. They may get a nice young laid back boy in who Piggy can train. :)

[mauigirl]

Would you be open to a young adult?? I have been running across some available adults while mosy-ing around on BCOA breeder websites. I think Eldorado has one and then there was a black and white boy posted somewhere also. But please do your research and make an educated decision. It really is worth waiting to find a breeder whose practices you're confident in, someone you know has the breed's best interests at heart.

Welcome to the forum :)

Edit: One other thought....I noticed you said you're looking for strictly pet quality. A lot of people assume that for a pet you don't need to look for breeders who show and place some of their pups in show homes. But this is the best place to look for not only healthy but well socialized pups. And then you have a lifetime of breeder support.

[Quercus]

Maui girl has it right for sure. I would say that MOST of our puppies go to pet homes...only a small percentage of puppies from any given litter go on to be show dogs. Most of us prefer to place puppies that we don't want to keep in our breeding programs in wonderful pet homes so they can be loved and cherished.

And to answer the OP, and Kelli's question...yes, the bitch in question is Luna, Quercus Select Incandescent . And she will most likely be bred to Stitch, DC Select Alien Invader JC. Luna is not a finished Champion, but she does have several conformation points, and many nice characteristics that make me think she should be bred. We don't show much anymore, and I think she could finish her CH if I put a lot more time, effort and money into it, none of which I have to spend on it right now ;) Anyhow, she needs to have her hips and thyroid done, and a CERF exam over the course of the summer...then we will make our final decision. She is a probable clear, and Stitch is a probable carrier, so puppies would be clears or carriers, but not ever get Fanconi.

[Quercus]

We were considering getting a strictly pet quality puppy now if we found one that was within our budget and from a responsible breeder (probably not going to happen, but I am hopeful). I know how you guys feel about the financial being a consideration, but for us it is. The timing is perfect for us right now as my husband is out of work and home to potty train. Things financially will be just fine when I finish my degree next year, but spending $1000 on a dog right now is not realistic. Nor do I know if we could ever really stomach that.

We would really like to get a rescue but with Piggy being such a dominant female I don't know how that will work. She tends to be fine with puppies but not older dogs and definitely not females.

Quercus, we are in Grand Rapids. We may be in the market next season and I will certainly keep you and Kelli in mind.


I can totally understand the inability to spend $1000 dollars on a puppy. Generally in the midwest, the prices are not that high...but they still will be several hundred dollars in order to be able to cover the cost of having a litter.

One of the reasons that it is hard to find a breeder in that have litters this year, is because the recession (particularly in the Great Lakes area) have caused breeders to be reluctant to breed a litter, in the event that there aren't enough buyers that can afford to buy a puppy...it is kind of a catch-22 I would love to provide healthy, sweet, affordable puppies for families, if I could be sure that I would be able to find homes for all of them. But, a well bred puppy just costs some money....and it is something a lot of us don't have much of right now.

[renaultf1]

Would you be open to a young adult?? I have been running across some available adults while mosy-ing around on BCOA breeder websites. I think Eldorado has one and then there was a black and white boy posted somewhere also. But please do your research and make an educated decision. It really is worth waiting to find a breeder whose practices you're confident in, someone you know has the breed's best interests at heart.

Very good point. Many times breeders/showers have youngsters (1 or younger) that don't work out as show dogs or have finished their championships and need a good home.

[lvoss]

The good thing about starting to look now for a puppy for next year, is that you can start putting a little away each month so by the time the puppy is ready to go home you have the purchase price and it isn't a big drain on the finances. I got my first basenji when I was in college and started my research a year before I got Nick. I just put a little away every month so that by the time I got him I had the money and a little more in case of emergency.

[wrx227wrc]

You guys are awesome. Thanks for all the help. I think the money situation is feasible when we look at next year...unless my husband is still unemployed.

I haven't given up on the rescue idea and I will keep checking BRAT and others. The biggest factor will be selecting the RIGHT companion for Piggy. I don't know if rescues will even consider us because we don't have a yard and don't own our home, etc. Does b experience trump that?

Maui- we are certainly open to a young adult as long as it is right for Pig. If you see any young males around the area or nearest states let me know. Where are you coming across them?

I guess in some ways we just have in our mind that a puppy will be best since piggy seems to be less dominant with small things. Anyone have any thoughts on that? Any good breeder should be able to evaluate Pig and select a puppy they think might work (no guarantees obviously) based on their interaction, right?

Luna is gorgeous Andrea, we would be interested for sure. I have a couple of friends (one lost a b and one needs a second also) that may be looking by that time too.

Kelli-we have lots of relatives on your side of the state. Could we come visit some time this summer assuming it worked around your schedule? Have you heard anything about the guy in grand haven, Sundance? I don't seem him on any sites or anything so I would imagine he isn't very responsible but I have seen dogs around town that he bred.

Lisa-thanks for the advice about money. I am working on a second BS after finding that my first one didn't secure employment. Every other day we get an e-mail from school about how dire the financial situation is, so I am assuming tuition will go up insanely soon. Hopefully things start to look up for all of us in the near future.

In the mean time we will keep saving and researching. Thanks again!

[renaultf1]

You guys are awesome. Thanks for all the help. I think the money situation is feasible when we look at next year...unless my husband is still unemployed.

I haven't given up on the rescue idea and I will keep checking BRAT and others. The biggest factor will be selecting the RIGHT companion for Piggy. I don't know if rescues will even consider us because we don't have a yard and don't own our home, etc. Does b experience trump that?

Maui- we are certainly open to a young adult as long as it is right for Pig. If you see any young males around the area or nearest states let me know. Where are you coming across them?

I guess in some ways we just have in our mind that a puppy will be best since piggy seems to be less dominant with small things. Anyone have any thoughts on that? Any good breeder should be able to evaluate Pig and select a puppy they think might work (no guarantees obviously) based on their interaction, right?

Luna is gorgeous Andrea, we would be interested for sure. I have a couple of friends (one lost a b and one needs a second also) that may be looking by that time too.

Kelli-we have lots of relatives on your side of the state. Could we come visit some time this summer assuming it worked around your schedule? Have you heard anything about the guy in grand haven, Sundance? I don't seem him on any sites or anything so I would imagine he isn't very responsible but I have seen dogs around town that he bred.

Lisa-thanks for the advice about money. I am working on a second BS after finding that my first one didn't secure employment. Every other day we get an e-mail from school about how dire the financial situation is, so I am assuming tuition will go up insanely soon. Hopefully things start to look up for all of us in the near future.

In the mean time we will keep saving and researching. Thanks again!

Regarding the youngish dogs, sometimes they are listed on breeders websites (that are on the BCOA website). Sometimes if you call and/or email, there are others that aren't shown on the website that are either available or will soon be available. With another dog in the house, the breeder would help you pick an adult with the right temperament that would work with Piggy, your house, your lifestyle...similar to what happens when you get a puppy.

[mauigirl]

Off the top of my head there was "Peabo" from Eldorado and "Tom" from Ankhu.

[tanza]

Off the top of my head there was "Peabo" from Eldorado and "Tom" from Ankhu.

and Tom is in Washington with the co-breeder

[wrx227wrc]

Ooooo I really like Peabo. Maybe I will e-mail them. They aren't on here often are they?

[renaultf1]

Nope...they aren't on here.

Do it, go to their website and email them. I've known Peabo since he was a week old. I LOVE Peabo...he is a neat dog, very (very) active, full of it, and really cute! They've had a lot of interest in him (I've been there when people have visited him), but their website was recently updated so I think he must still be there...surprises me actually. I jokingly asked if Peabo could come home to my pack and they rolled their eyes...I guess they think I have my hands full enough with my 2 adults and 1 puppy...they're right. :D:D:D

That would be awesome if you ended up with Peabs.

[wrx227wrc]

I did, I did! I'm so excited, I hope they still have him and get back to me. Do you have any idea what they are asking? What is your take on his temperment?

We will definitely have to drive a long way, but I have done that before for b's :) I will just be bummed if we got there and he and Pig weren't good together. Any suggestions on how I could get Pig's personality across to them? Could i send a video of her or will they be able to ask questions enough to get familiar with her? I will ask their advice too, but any input from you guys would be helpful.

[wrx227wrc]

What is the opinion about finding a buddy for a dominant dog? I have gotten conflicting opinions about getting another strong minded dog vs a more submissive dog. What do you guys think?

F1... Why hasn't he been snatched up already?

[renaultf1]

If they get back to you that he is still available, they'll ask you questions and you can describe your Piggy as best you can in email, send the video and then follow-up with a phone call. That way, they can ask you questions and maybe help better determine if Peabo & Piggy would be a possible match. He's only a year old, so he is really really active. Regarding temperament, that really is a better question for them as they are around him on a day to day basis...I only see him every once in a while. But his energy does remind me of my 2...just a fun energy...I remember him being a bit of a smart a$$...but I like that :D:D.

Look, if you end up making the trip with Piggy and they aren't a good match...it won't be a wasted trip. You could have them keep you posted if any of this year's young hopefuls don't work out as show dogs or if they have another dog finish their championship that might be available. If they meet your dog, they'd have a better idea of a future match.

If you don't hear anything back by Saturday, maybe give them a call.

I don't have any idea what they are asking for him.

[renaultf1]

What is the opinion about finding a buddy for a dominant dog? I have gotten conflicting opinions about getting another strong minded dog vs a more submissive dog. What do you guys think?

F1... Why hasn't he been snatched up already?


I have no idea why he hasn't gone yet...the only thing I can think of is he is really high energy. Me, I love that, but it definitely isn't for everyone. Like I said, I'm really surprise he's still available.

[wrx227wrc]

Yeh she got back to me, he is still there. Any idea of what type of video to send, like playing or at the park interacting? What would best show her temperament, are there certain activities for evaluation? Like what would she do with her to evaluate?

Piggy is crazy with energy too. She lets you know if she hasn't had enough exercise. She is a smart apple too and can outsmart a human in many tasks (door opening, kennel latch opening, etc). So we are used to dealing with that. We like that most of the time too. We are hoping with a friend we will feel some of the stress lifted of being her sole source of entertainment all the time.

I'll keep you guys posted.

[wrx227wrc]

Is any one year old basenji NOT high energy??

What do breeders usually charge for a dog like this that is older?

[renaultf1]

Yeh she got back to me, he is still there. Any idea of what type of video to send, like playing or at the park interacting? What would best show her temperament, are there certain activities for evaluation? Like what would she do with her to evaluate?

Piggy is crazy with energy too. She lets you know if she hasn't had enough exercise. She is a smart apple too and can outsmart a human in many tasks (door opening, kennel latch opening, etc). So we are used to dealing with that. We like that most of the time too. We are hoping with a friend we will feel some of the stress lifted of being her sole source of entertainment all the time.

I'll keep you guys posted.

Email or call and ask them, what info they think would help them figure if they might work together. I would think a video of her at the park interacting would be great. If she is dominant with other dogs at the park in general, be sure to tell them that. That would be important to know.

[wrx227wrc]

She said no, we live too far away :(

[wrx227wrc]

"I need to do his hips when he is two and his eyes every once in awhile so I want him where I can get at him.

Peabo is a nice boy but like I said I want him where I can get at him."

Do I leave it at that??

[renaultf1]

"I need to do his hips when he is two and his eyes every once in awhile so I want him where I can get at him.

Peabo is a nice boy but like I said I want him where I can get at him."

Do I leave it at that??


Unfortunately I think that is the answer. Good about the testing though. You might ask if they know of any young adults that might be closer to you.

[Quercus]

What is the opinion about finding a buddy for a dominant dog? I have gotten conflicting opinions about getting another strong minded dog vs a more submissive dog. What do you guys think?

F1... Why hasn't he been snatched up already?

NNNNOOOOOOoooooo! If you have a dominant dog, you want a submissive dog...two strong minded dogs will fight constantly and drive you crazy!

But it isn't always that simple...sometimes dogs that LOOK dominant, because they always act out towards other dogs first are merely reactive, and truly scared/uncomfortable/nervous around other dogs. So they ACT overly confident. Either way, the easiest combination is always two easygoing dogs, and the worst is two edgy dogs. Take it from me :(

[Quercus]

"I need to do his hips when he is two and his eyes every once in awhile so I want him where I can get at him.

Peabo is a nice boy but like I said I want him where I can get at him."

Do I leave it at that??

That means she wants to keep him intact, and possibly use him in the future for breeding. That explains why he is still there, homes that want to keep the dogs intact and cooperate with breeders are the hardest to come by.

Hang in there, you will find the perfect match for Piggy!

[wrx227wrc]

Andrea-That is definitely what I thought, but I have read some things that stated otherwise. In this case may I be better off getting a super laid back older male than a puppy anyway??

Pam wrote me back and said that Dillon (Eldorado N C-Quest's Gunsmoke) may be available soon-ish and is in Cleveland. Does anyone know anything about him? I can't find him on the OFA site.

We are in no rush (other than simply being excited) to find one and would rather wait a long time to find the perfect compliment than to end up with a bad match.

[Quercus]

Personally, I think a puppy is ALWAYS easier to introduce than another adult. But lots of people successfully introduce adults. There are quite a few 'tricks' you can try to make things go more smoothly. The fact that Piggy even tolerates dog parks is great...she will most likely do fine with another friend.

[wrx227wrc]

Her dominance is mostly a protect my house and my people kind of thing. In an off leash, away from home situation she is fine. She does have to pee on EVERY other dogs pee though...

Our trick has always been to have her meet them elsewhere first before coming into the house together that helps but doesn't make things perfect. There have been far too few males dogs in our house (1 only I think) to be able to tell if it is strictly a female-female thing. That would be our plan with any new addition.

[kiroja]

You are more than welcome to come visit me and my gang anytime you'd like. :)

Sorry things didn't work out with Peabo, but it's understandable that she would want to keep him close. Maybe Dillon is a better alternative anyways? The good thing is there is a lot of word of mouth between breeders, so they may hear of someone who has an adult to place that might work out for you. Don't be afraid to contact other breeders that are closer to you too, even if there's nothing on their site, they may know of something available or would keep you in mind if something comes up later.

Andrea is right, Piggy may or may not be a truly dominant girl, but either way, you want a laid back submissive boy to pair with her. Two crazy dogs will definitely make your life crazy! lol A puppy is usually the best bet for introducing to an established dog, especially a dominant one. However the good thing with adding an adult is that you'll usually see their real side right away. A puppy may change behavior as they grow up and get away from their littermates and what starts out as a nice pairing might not work out later. But again, usually the puppy will work out better than an adult on average.

Regarding the Sundance guy, if it's who I think it is, then yes you want to steer clear. I don't know him but have heard about him from a few folks and I did run into some of the vet techs that see his dogs, at a booth for a pet expo. And when they saw my dogs they couldn't believe that the breed was actually nice! I had all 4 of mine on leash together and they walked up and gave kisses to the girls. Apparently his dogs have to come in the door muzzled. Also for health testing, if you don't see his dogs on OFA, that's probably another big clue.

[renaultf1]

I've met Dillon. Dillon I remember as being more laid back than my boy Brando (also one of Eldorado's...one of their imports)...he played nicer than Brando. The only other thing I can remember is he is bigger than Brando (who is average in size)...Dylan is taller.

Again, I would ask them about his personality and how he might get on with a possibly dominant girl. They live with him on a day to day basis, so they will know all his quirks. Maybe ask him to describe what the sort of girl he is best matched with as a playmate.

[renaultf1]

Oh, and regarding the OFA...I don't know about what if any tests they have done on him...probably depends on if they had plans on using him in their breeding program. Both his parents are clears for Fanconi so I'm sure they would wait for the direct test for that if they weren't going to breed him.

[wrx227wrc]

Dillon does look very tall! I haven't heard back from Pam yet about him, I am assuming she is talking to whoever shows him (the someone in Cleveland maybe). We could make more than one trip to Cleveland if we had to, just to see how they got along.

I will put the word out to other breeders that we may be looking for an young adult. I'll give that route and rescues another couple months before we get serious about puppy talk and visiting Kelli and/or Andrea :)

[wrx227wrc]

I know that BRAT is the larger rescue, but I have seen some smaller ones too. Are there any rescues that we should steer clear from?

[Duke]

And when they saw my dogs they couldn't believe that the breed was actually nice! I had all 4 of mine on leash together and they walked up and gave kisses to the girls. Apparently his dogs have to come in the door muzzled. Also for health testing, if you don't see his dogs on OFA, that's probably another big clue.
Your dogs are the sweetest, Kelli. We've met at the Pet Expo in Novi more than once over a couple years. I just love your furkids. Also met Tayda Lenny's kids too. You might remember me as the stranger obsessed with your kids - I initially owned a mix, now 2 and have learned so much about their intriguing characteristics.

Keeping with the thread - wrx227wrc - you're one of the lucky ones to have a resource like this forum.

[wrx227wrc]

My first basenji, Duke, was from a guy in Ann Arbor named Eric Williams, that only really bred for show, not selling. Has anyone ever heard of him? That was how we ended up with Duke, he wasn't getting along with his dad and showing well. We got him at about 11 mos and he was fabulous.

[tanza]

My first basenji, Duke, was from a guy in Ann Arbor named Eric Williams, that only really bred for show, not selling. Has anyone ever heard of him? That was how we ended up with Duke, he wasn't getting along with his dad and showing well. We got him at about 11 mos and he was fabulous.

Does he have a kennel name? Or what is Duke's registered name?

[wrx227wrc]

Duke's name was Erictee's first choice ersal. I don't think he really had a kennel name, I think most of the dog's names started with Erictee's...which I suppose would was like his kennel name. I don't see anything on OFA, I just wondered if anyone in the show arena knew if he was still around :)

[kiroja]

Your dogs are the sweetest, Kelli. We've met at the Pet Expo in Novi more than once over a couple years. I just love your furkids. Also met Tayda Lenny's kids too. You might remember me as the stranger obsessed with your kids - I initially owned a mix, now 2 and have learned so much about their intriguing characteristics.

Thank you Jill! Yes, I remember you. :) We enjoyed visiting with you and providing a little Basenji love. :)

[kiroja]

My first basenji, Duke, was from a guy in Ann Arbor named Eric Williams, that only really bred for show, not selling. Has anyone ever heard of him? That was how we ended up with Duke, he wasn't getting along with his dad and showing well. We got him at about 11 mos and he was fabulous.

Yep, I see Eric all the time. I'm not sure about a kennel name, I have seen him use both Erictee and/or Ersal on his dogs. His dogs mostly come from Donna Trouten (Moonlyte) I think. I believe she doesn't do Basenjis anymore but is active in another breed? Eric is like most of the other Michigan breeders, just has a litter every once in a while. Keeps a pup, works with it for a few years, then decides to have another litter. I know he has several breeds. Ridgebacks, Doxies, and maybe even Salukis come to mind. I know he has said he has issues with the Basenjis getting along well with the pack, so he has backed off and tries to just have one at a time now. lol I wasn't sure if he was going to do anything with Basenjis for a while, but I did hear from some other people that he did have a litter recently or added a pup from someone else maybe?

Eric is a great guy, and has a good eye for a nice Basenji. I don't know if and what health testing he does as a breeder though. But he is a good person to talk dogs with, very friendly and knowledgeable.

I believe Eric just got an AOM on one of his boys all 4 days in Louisville...

[Quercus]

Duke's name was Erictee's first choice ersal. I don't think he really had a kennel name, I think most of the dog's names started with Erictee's...which I suppose would was like his kennel name. I don't see anything on OFA, I just wondered if anyone in the show arena knew if he was still around :)

Eric is still showing Basenjis, but I think last I heard, he wasn't planning on doing anymore breeding. He has another breed as well. We usually see him out at shows several times a year. He is a really nice guy. I don't know anything about how much health testing he does.

[wrx227wrc]

That's cool that you guys know him. I never met him. My ex-boyfriend went to get Duke from him after his parents met Eric at a pet expo. I was adamant against getting a dog at all, but of course, fell in love with Duke the second I saw him...even though he had just pooped all over my bed :)

I remember that he bred Ridgeback's too. I don't think he ever really bred basenjis to sell them and I don't see him on OFA with either name. We just ended up with Duke because he was far too independent to succeed in the show ring. He was gorgeous and incredibly well behaved and we were glad to end up with him... Just curious about Eric.

[wrx227wrc]

Hey guys!

Pam from Eldorado got back to me about Dillon and said he would be available in a few months. She said they would place him on a 30-day trial basis, which I think is kind of neat. That way if he and Pig were a disaster we aren't bound to keep trying to make it work. Is that sort of arrangement common?

I think that we are probably going to try to go see him next month-ish. She said that they would be asking $800 for him. He will be two and a half then. The reason I want you guys' opinions on that is because you guys are probably more familiar with her dogs and reputation than I could make myself over the internet. Is that fair?

I don't know much about the showing world...His record on her website has "Picture best is sweeps at Potomac Hound Show 07 and Hudson River Valley...5 points, one major, and a puppy group 2." His parents are C-Quest's Last Laugh and Eldorado's Wysteria.

The money if definitely more than we would like to spend but for a perfect fit and a somewhat trained dog it may be worth our time and energy :)

[tanza]

Is it a common arrangement with responsible breeders placing an adult dog... as the key is the home.. and that it works... and if it doesn't the dog comes back to the owner/breeder...

As far as the price.. it is a fair price... you know health wise what you are getting... but... that said... to me the home is the most important.. not the money that is received or charged.... and you are getting a dog from a responsible breeder, one that has health tested... and one that will take him back if it doesn't work and they will be connected to you for life... wanting to know all about him and what/how he is doing.. They have put time and money into him.. and they are just trying to cover their cost... really no different then a puppy... you will not have the "puppy" stage...gggg that is sometimes a plus... depending on what you want....

Are there strings about having him neutered?... or will he be neutered at that time?

[wrx227wrc]

Thanks, Pat!

We do have to get him neutered, but would anyway. There is a low cost place that all the vets rave about around here that does it for $65, so that isn't a problem.

I definitely feel comfort in the fact that if it really doesn't work we are not stuck with a stressful disaster on our hands.

I was thinking the whole puppy vs. adult issue...do you guys think you bond less with a dog that you get when it is older as compared to a puppy? Or in their long lifespan does it really all come out the same in the end?

[BasenjiByTheBay]

This has been an interesting thread to watch, though it doesn't have any relevance to our situation. So...

Totally random injection of opinion and I don't know if you'd consider me qualified to comment since we've never had a B puppy. We have had other dogs as puppies, though, I've never been as bonded to any dog (and I'm old - we've had a few dogs :p) as I am to our two basenjis, each of which we got as an adult (one at 3, one at 4). IME B's are smart creatures, and they know when they're loved (um, and fed, spoiled, etc) and they return the favor, no matter how old they are when you connect.

[dash]

I was thinking the whole puppy vs. adult issue...do you guys think you bond less with a dog that you get when it is older as compared to a puppy? Or in their long lifespan does it really all come out the same in the end?

I foster for BRAT and the fosters even in the short time I have had them (not longer than a month) have bonded and fit in very well in our family. The reports I have seen regarding my fosters in their new homes, have shown the same. The last boy I had was kept outside all the time and was very skiddish but he came around quickly to us and even in just a few days time has started to bond with the new owners. It did take him longer to get in the swing of things with my B but in time he came around.

As far as us, I didn't bond less to them.

Good Luck!

[renaultf1]

I have 2 b's that I got as adults from Pam...Ruby and Brando (technically a foster). Both came on a 30 day trial to see that they fit into my home situation. Both are really bonded to me and my family...I don't remember it taking any time for that to happen. Ruby was a little skittish around my brother (he is 6'5"...so I think she had never seen someone his size) for the first month she was here...now she jumps up in his lap when she needs to get away from Brando :D. I added a b puppy to the mix about a month ago. To me, there is no difference to me as to how Aaliyah (pup) has bonded with me, vs. how Ruby & Brando bonded with me.

Money wise, I'll spend a lot more on the puppy than I will have on the adults because they came to me with all of the testing already done. Initial cost of pup, puppy shot vet visits, obedience training, (in my case, show handling classes), wellness exams, CERF, hips, patellas. Now with Brando & Ruby (because they have been bred), I will still have CERF, thyroid and wellness done, but in general, I think an adult costs less than a puppy until they become seniors.

I too think the price is fair. Because I know Pam & Sheila well and visit with them often, I know what they put into their dogs and all the testing that they do. I'm really amazed at it all...and the money they put in. All you have to do is look at the OFA site and put in Eldorado and you see all the testing they do.

Based on what you wrote, I think they are having a friend of theirs finish Dillon and then he'll be available as a pet.

[Kananga]

I was thinking the whole puppy vs. adult issue...do you guys think you bond less with a dog that you get when it is older as compared to a puppy? Or in their long lifespan does it really all come out the same in the end?

I think you can find success with either option. An adult simply takes a bit more time but they do come around. I got my B when he was about 7-8months old. I'd say it took a solid month or two for him to fully adjust but he did just fine. He's been with me 4 months now and i'd say the bond is very noticeable. He always wants my attention and wants to be nearby. Usually sleep up against me when i'm watching tv.

I went this route solely because I knew I would not have the time to watch over a puppy. I've been through it before and I know the dedication it takes. It was simply not my cup of tea. I was more than happy to take the extra bonding time with an older puppy. Housebreaking was easy (less than 10 days he was fully adjusted), he slept through the nights fine, and he did not have those sharp puppy teeth.

There are pros and cons to both options. Go with what works best for you.

[EskiLovr]

I have to agree with what some of the others here have said. When I got my Eski, he was two or two and a half (by vet estimate--he was a stray.) Honestly a dog and a person could not have been more closely bonded than we were. He was totally and entirely devoted to me, and vice-versa. I think that an animal as smart as a Basenji (or and Eski) knows when you are devoted and gives it right back! You fall in love with their quirks and they fall in love with yours.

Good luck with Dillon. I bet he'll be your absolute best friend in no time, esp if you are visiting him in advance. (One thing I would encourage, is to leave behind something with your scent on it for him, before you take him home. A t-shirt, pillow case or bathrobe that you have slept with is a good choice. I've seen this work many times, and it makes the transition less confusing, because the scent is familiar when moving day comes.)

[wrx227wrc]

Great idea about leaving something behind, we will be sure to do that with him, maybe I will even bring a toy of Pig's too, so nothing is completely new.

I do think the idea of finding an adult is sounding more appealing since it will be less time consuming in the long run. I really like Dillon, but I also got an e-mail back from Sue at Klassic and she said they need to re-home a 4 year old that a friend has (so they know he was well taken care of) also in Cleveland. So maybe we will be going to visit both of them in a few weeks. What do you guys know about Klassic? There are lots of listings on OFA and she seems really nice from the e-mails.

Though I am really into the young adult idea, my husband isn't so keen on the idea of getting a "used dog" as he put it jokingly, but I think the point about saving money on wellness exams, second and third rounds of shots, etc. is . Not to mention the value of anything lost in the teething stage because we didn't pay enough attention to our stuff :) He'll soften as soon as he meets him.

[Kananga]

Though I am really into the young adult idea, my husband isn't so keen on the idea of getting a "used dog" as he put it jokingly, but I think the point about saving money on wellness exams, second and third rounds of shots, etc. is . Not to mention the value of anything lost in the teething stage because we didn't pay enough attention to our stuff :) He'll soften as soon as he meets him.

Not to mention you'll get more sleep, won't need to clean up as many accidents, etc. ;)

[tanza]

Great idea about leaving something behind, we will be sure to do that with him, maybe I will even bring a toy of Pig's too, so nothing is completely new.

I do think the idea of finding an adult is sounding more appealing since it will be less time consuming in the long run. I really like Dillon, but I also got an e-mail back from Sue at Klassic and she said they need to re-home a 4 year old that a friend has (so they know he was well taken care of) also in Cleveland. So maybe we will be going to visit both of them in a few weeks. What do you guys know about Klassic? There are lots of listings on OFA and she seems really nice from the e-mails.

Though I am really into the young adult idea, my husband isn't so keen on the idea of getting a "used dog" as he put it jokingly, but I think the point about saving money on wellness exams, second and third rounds of shots, etc. is . Not to mention the value of anything lost in the teething stage because we didn't pay enough attention to our stuff :) He'll soften as soon as he meets him.

I know Sue very well... she has some very nice dogs and with good temperaments.... Our Kylie that we are breeding this fall is from Sue... and "auntie" to Maya over there in the UK! Sue's co-breeder Jeff Gillespie is the one that lives in Cleveland... Sue lives about 3 hrs away... and I know Jeff very well also

Did Sue tell you the name?

[wrx227wrc]

I will ask her the name in the next e-mail. I think it was more of a pet dog, but maybe Jeff did show it too, I don't know. She is waiting to hear back from Jeff to hear whether or not the dog is still available. I think she said that the owner was moving and that was why they were finding him a new home. Jeff is good friends with the current owner.

[agilebasenji]

Klassic dogs took breed and best opp this year at westminster. And all the Klassic dogs I've seen are just gorgeous. Very well-thought of (dogs and Sue) in the breed.

[Quercus]

Klassic dogs took breed and best opp this year at westminster. And all the Klassic dogs I've seen are just gorgeous. Very well-thought of (dogs and Sue) in the breed.

Klassic dogs have SUPER temperament as well. Both Sue and Jeff are people that I really feel happy to know, and call my friends :)

[tanza]

From either breeders... you can't go wrong... IMO...

[wrx227wrc]

Holy cow! My e-mail box is flooded, everyone seems to be passing my e-mails on. Its pretty great how many options we have to entertain now.

I feel like this is my basenji search diary :)

I have talked to Laura Mae Hesse about the possibility of a co-ownership of one of her boys, Frances. We are still entertaining that but I just don't think we have the time over the next year to commit to that. I am also not sure we want a boy we have to keep in-tact.

I also talked to Sue Joyner about one of her puppies that is supposed to go to a show home, but his teeth may not be quite up to par. He is black and white, which is our first choice in color, so I am looking forward to hearing back from her.

I also just got a e-mail from Michelle at Pandora and she has two brindle fosters that are not from her breedings but are from her bloodlines. I am waiting for more info from her on them.

So much info to sort through!

[Nemo]

I also talked to Sue Joyner about one of her puppies that is supposed to go to a show home, but his teeth may not be quite up to par. He is black and white, which is our first choice in color, so I am looking forward to hearing back from her.



My puppy Zoni is from the same litter as Nick! I have some pictures of him at 4 weeks in another thread but not anything recent unfortunately. I might see him at the puppy match next weekend. He's a cutie and from what I can tell from Zoni, they were all well socialized around her adult dogs. Sue is really nice and helpful as well.

[wrx227wrc]

How cool, Nemo!
I got an e-mail back from her that there was one other non-show home that was interested, but that she thinks they may have gotten a pup already. Maybe we will get lucky and he will not go to the show home and the other will have already found a puppy.

[renaultf1]

Hey, I'm just curious, but what is the story on the litter of basenji puppies you bred in 2007. I was looking back thru old posts and found this thread:

http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=1537

[wrx227wrc]

Its a long story but here goes the short version (surprising, I know). My ex-boyfriend and I got a basenji from Eric Williams and I fell in love with it. When we broke up I decided to start looking for one of my own. I found a pair that appeared perfect so I went to get them from Missouri after talking to the "breeder" on the phone for a couple of months. I was told they were raised only in their home, and were previously shown (both turned out to be untrue).Things seemed pretty good on the phone but when my sister and I got there it was a puppy mill (well over 100 dogs of 7 breeds and one couple caring for them), I am not going to throw the name into this story, but if you look at other threads I have participated on you can put it together. My sister and I decided we couldn't leave them there so we decided to take them with us. We had no commitment to them and could have turned our heads, but we didn't. We got them home and they had serious health (all which could be treated, worms, a fungus, etc, not genetic issues) and behavioral issues. Upon contacting the "breeder" to make them aware of everything we had encountered she stopped talking to me.

We weren't getting them as a breeding pair, though they had produced one other litter, and after all of that we certainly weren't going to do it. In two months we took them back to the vet and things were fine. My landlord and a couple of friends started asking if we were going to breed them and before we knew it we had already found buyers for most of the puppies through good friends and other people we trusted before we even thought much about it. Over the next couple of months we did what we thought was enough research (I know better now) and decided it was a good choice. We planned to keep one. I got a hold of both of the original breeders (the place we got them had gotten them from two separate places) and they confirmed the bloodlines and testing results and sent me all of the AKC info on each of their parents. So with their encouragement and that of my friends and an aunt, who had bred jack dogs for years, we decided to do it.

I was I know how you guys feel about this, and after being a part of this message board and becoming more involved in the basenji culture I am not proud of our decision either. However, what I am proud of is that each one of the puppies are all in great homes that we have remained in contact with and in the summer months we actually see most of them on a monthly basis at the park.

What happened to the parents you are asking, and I would too. Well like I said, we planned to keep one puppy and both of the parents. We worked for months with the parents even before they bred. We had a behaviorist come and work with them, and his assessment was that they had been abused, which we had always suspected from their behavior and a couple of scars on the male. We could not ever get the male potty trained, which the behaviorist attributed to his living outside his whole life. Then a couple of months after the last puppy went home, the unthinkable happened, the female aggressively lunged and bit one of my friends. Two months later she bit my husband. We took her to the vet and they suggested putting her down, that most rescues wouldn't take a dog with such a bite history. We wanted to keep them together and decided that we would look at other options until we found the right one. Eventually, we found a new home for them on a farm with a couple of other basenjis. It was the hardest thing I have had to do, but the best decision for them.

Again, I am not proud of what happened and I know it could have turned out worse than it did, which is why I don't throw the story up on the forums. From what we had researched at that point (which was not enough) it was not a bad decision to breed them. I don't regret it because they are all loved and in great homes with no health problems to date. I acknowledge that it wasn't "responsible breeding" but at that point I did not know any better (which is no excuse). So, if you have any other questions to ask about it, I will gladly answer them.

[tanza]

We all learn hard lessons... and you obviously have... so... just be glad that you 1. found good homes (hopefully all are spayed/neutered).... that said you might want to encourage the owners to DNA test for Fanconi on all the pups from that litter... 2. found a home for the parents.. hopefully too they have been spayed/neutered... and 3. Have learned about responsible breeding...
In the end... can't ask more than that...

Thanks for sharing you experience....

[Nemo]

How cool, Nemo!
I got an e-mail back from her that there was one other non-show home that was interested, but that she thinks they may have gotten a pup already. Maybe we will get lucky and he will not go to the show home and the other will have already found a puppy.

Good luck! I'm guessing you have to wait until his permanent teeth come in? He is almost 14 weeks old now.

[wrx227wrc]

We have done all that you talked about Pat, and feel very fortunate about things.

And yes, Nemo we do have to wait for that occasion.

[wrx227wrc]

I was browsing BRAT dogs and noticed one that had scabs in his ears, does anyone know what this is from? That same dog had thyroid issues, is that the cause or is it a separate issue? Just curious...