Peeing peeing and peeing some more...

[TuckerVA]

Tucker has started peeing more and more in my home and I am at a loss for what to do. Here's the deal:
I adopted him about 3 months ago. He's 4 years old and the original owners said that he typically could only hold it 5/6 hours. He's home pretty much exactly 6 hours in the morning (then a walker comes to take him out for half an hour) and 6 hours in the evening (when I get home). I figured that, like just about ANY dog, he could manage another hour or two. Initially, he peed a few times on my sofa over a couple of weeks and I managed to let it go. My action, since I can't be home when he does it, was to expose him to the spot he peed on and repeat "No!" many times, then take him out. He's been tested for Fanconi within 4-5 months, so I'm thinking that this is not his problem.
So a couple of days ago I came home to a fresh batch of pee on my carpet and, since I had left the door open to my room, he peed on my duvet and comforter. TWICE in one day! Furthermore, he seems to be ashamed and shreds whatever he pees on. He pulled some of the carpet up and shredded my duvet. He never shredded the sofa when he peed there... Normally, I keep my door closed. He pees on 'soft things'. I got a scat mat for the sofa, so he stopped peeing there. I got a doggie door for my balcony and he has a pillow and blanket there, which he also pees on randomly, but I never know how much. Now that I've taken the sofa away from him, he pees on the carpet (rather than the hardwood floor).
I'm at a loss for what to do next. The original owner basically told me "well, we DID tell you that he couldn't hold it more than 5/6 hours". So I guess I'm just missing his peeing in the afternoons as this is when he seems to do it most (based on the 'freshness' of the spots when I get home).
I implore anyone to help with any ideas on this. I am almost at the point of putting him back up for adoption based on his newfound apparent joy of peeing all over the place. It's becoming more and more frequent.
A few things to not:
Tucker sleeps with me. I take him out anytime between 8pm and 11-12 at night and then again at about 6am. That's up to 10 hours. Granted, he's sleeping and that may be the difference??
I already pay a walker to come once a day and it's costing me about $260/month for 5 days a week. I simply cannot afford another visit.
I do not want to crate him for 12 hours a day as he's never been a 'crate dog', although he has one and is only mildly averse to going in it (with treats as bait).
I can't lock him on the balcony all day since winter is coming and he'll freeze (and that a crappy life also as I have a pretty small balcony).
I can't afford professional training.

Do pee pads work? Should I try this? If so, how does he know to use that rather than the carpet or somewhere else? Do I fence him in the kitchen and plan on cleaning his mess up everyday? Help! :confused:

[jessi76]

has he been checked for a UTI? or other bladder issue? I'd be sure to see a vet first before assuming it's a training issue.

[TuckerVA]

The previous owner said to get the sticks that you test the pee for, which I will. I'm trying to secure insurance prior to going to the vet and have requested the history on him, but there isn't any aside from shot records. However, he was tested, as stated, for Fanconi just about 4-5 months ago and I got him 3 months ago and this has been an issue from the beginning, just a bit moreso as of late. The bed/duvet thing was, to me, a major setback since this is where he sleeps with me. I never though he would pee on 'our' bed when there is a nice floor to pee on... As for a UTI, wouldn't a UTI cause discomfort for the dog? I mean, when he takes a leak, wouldn't he whine or something? I know I've had girlfriends in the past who whined about it when they got one. :D

[jessi76]

a UTI can cause a dog to suddenly "go" often, and in unusual places in your home. it may not necessarily cause pain, or you may not KNOW there is pain. dogs are alot tougher than gals. (and I'm a gal!)

I wouldn't wait for insurance - I'd head to your regular vet as soon as you can and have it checked out.

If he gets a clean bill of health (which I HOPE!) then address the training issue. but I wouldn't just assume it's training without first ruling out a minor medical issue.

[jys1011]

This may be a very dumb comment :o but maybe you're leaving too much water for him?? Do you leave water out for him all day??

We're at work all day too & C3PO is a big time pee-er so we have to manage his water supply.

Also the pee pads do work. I tried it with TOPAZ since she is SOOO particular about where to "go" outside. She does use both outdoors & the pee pad depending on her mood :rolleyes:

By the way IMO I wouldn't do the whole "NO" on the spot where he did do it because really to him you may sound looney probablly wondering what you're yelling about since you're doing it WAY after the fact.

And finally make sure you clean up with live enzyme solutions so doesn't keep going in those spots.

good luck!

[spitfirekrl1]

Do they poo on those pee pads as well or do they just pee on them? Alani is very particular about that as well and now that it's snowing it's almost impossible to get her to go and we end up taking her for 3 or 4 walks just after we get home waiting for her to do her business. We're finding that she'd rather hold it for an entire day than go in the snow.

I was thinking we could put one on our deck where there wasn't any snow and save her and us from freezing in the single digit temperatures.

[listeme]

"I implore anyone to help with any ideas on this. I am almost at the point of putting him back up for adoption."

"I do not want to crate him for 12 hours a day as he's never been a 'crate dog'".

Maybe in this case it's a "lesser of two evils" kind of thing. Maybe for now -- for whatever reason -- Tucker needs more protection from himself. Health, nerves, adjustment, whatever. Maybe you can consider trying the crate approach a temporary solution so that you don't have to give him up. I would think having to be rehomed -- again -- would be harder on him than getting used to the crate during this time period.

Experiment with approaches: try the crate in the afternoon after the dog walker comes. Maybe he's more nervous then.

I would not want to be in a crate for hours. But I'm not a dog. I'm not comforted by den-like things. I'm comforted by chocolate :D. But it MIGHT help him, and it might let him continue to live there with you who he seems to like very much.

Good luck!

[jys1011]

OH and one more thing! I do remember someone gave me a tip to throw some treats or kibble in the places where he pees & he's LESS likely to pee there since they hate to eliminate where they eat :)

And PLEASE don't give up this poor little guy he may just be going through something he can't really help. I would really urge you to try the pads. It may require you staying home a day or two to show him that this is his new potty place.

And yes spitfire they can poo here too but as of late she prefers to poo outside & leave inside for pee only. I guess she hates the smell as much as I do! HA! :)

[lvoss]

Dogs must be strip tested for urine glucose monthly and it is even better if you can remember to do it more frequently. If Tucker has not been tested for urine glucose since the increased urination began, I would go and purchase strips. Make sure they are for urine glucose.

[Lenora]

Puppy pads never worked for me because Abbey would shred them like she does all paper. First take Tucker to the vet and make absolutely sure he doesn't have a bladder infection. Try taking him out one more time in the evening for a short walk after dinner. If he gets to go out enough, sooner or later he'll stop pottying in the house. Have you asked the dog walker how much time the dog actually spends outside? Maybe that's the problem and he's trying to tell you the only way he knows how.

[Quercus]

<<However, he was tested, as stated, for Fanconi just about 4-5 months ago and I got him 3 months ago and this has been an issue from the beginning, just a bit moreso as of late.>>

That is simply not enough. He could easily have Fanconi...the onset is sudden, and most people test their dogs at the VERY least, once a month. A UTI is certainly a possibility as well.

<<As for a UTI, wouldn't a UTI cause discomfort for the dog? I mean, when he takes a leak, wouldn't he whine or something? I know I've had girlfriends in the past who whined about it when they got one>>

Okay...going to kick your @$$ on that one! You would whine if you had one, believe me! ;) But dogs, not so much...he might show signs of pain if he had a large stone, but a UTI doesn't have much outward signs other than frequent urination in the beginning.

[ChristyRutherford]

I adopted a 3yo basenji that was never taught to go outside. He is still not reliable when I am not home, but after a year we have managed to get a schedule down. I found that he only goes on the floor when I am not around, so he has an area that is not carpeted that he stays on when I am not home. It is 2 rooms and he does not like being neglected from the rest of the house, but it was either that or he would have to go. I would really suggest trying to crate train him. My moms basenji hated it at first but now goes there with just the mention of the word "cheese". He does not mind it at all, and all they really do is sleep while you are at work.
I was very frustrated when I got squiggy, but I am so glad I stuck it out and we have come to an understaning. In fact it keeps getting better with time.
Good Luck

[TuckerVA]

Thanks for all of the replies. Tucker is now confined to the kitchen during the day. He's not really happy about it and today was the third day. He was really snarky this morning when I was putting him in there and even tried to snap at me. I know why, so I didn't bother to acknowledge him. He hasn't peed on the tile yet as I suspect that he, like Christy's dog, won't pee on the tile floor as he has NEVER peed on any hard floor, only the soft surfaces of the sofa, carpet and my duvet cover (b4st4rd!)... Once I have some more time (after the holidays), I'll most likely start working on the crate or a warm option for the balcony since he really likes being able to see stuff... The kitchen is rather bland... At least with a crate I could put the crate near the glass door... I'm actually thinking of getting a heated pad and putting it in the crate on the balcony for him, but I fear it may still be too cold for him...

Any thoughts?

[Quercus]

Have you thought about giving him a spot inside to pee? Like a big litter box, with either litter, or maybe a blanket, in it?

I would avoid putting him on the balcony. I think it is dangerous, and cold. I would be willing to bet money that he would rather be closed in the kitchen than the balcony, especially during winter. I would much rather see him in a crate, than stuck out on a balcony. Honestly...dogs sleep when we aren't home (minus a few exceptions). But I think the kitchen is a suitable compromise ;) Use some treats to train him to go in when it is time...give him something REALLY yummy when he is there (raw marrow bone, sterlized bones with cheeze whiz, compressed rawhide) something he ONLY gets when he goes into the kitchen, and pretty soon he will be happy to go in.

And then never, ever let him out of your sight when you are home; so he doesn't sneak off and pee on the bed.

[jessi76]

Once I have some more time (after the holidays), I'll most likely start working on the crate or a warm option for the balcony since he really likes being able to see stuff... The kitchen is rather bland... At least with a crate I could put the crate near the glass door... I'm actually thinking of getting a heated pad and putting it in the crate on the balcony for him, but I fear it may still be too cold for him...

Any thoughts?

you need "time" to come up w/ a way to keep the dog confined and warm?!? sorry, I don't understand that at all. IMO, dogs are part of the family, and I'd never leave a family member out in the cold all day. please, find the "time" now, and set him up inside your home. The dog should be warm & safe, he's not worried your kitchen is too "bland".

[Vanessa]

Try this on a cold night...
Put some uncooked rice in a large sock and tie it in a few firm knots. Stick the sock in the microwave for about a min or a min and a half. The rice gets really nice and warm. Its a great little heating pillow along as you can keep an eye on him so he wont chew it.

[tlbuddy]

I would definitely try the crate method and if you have a dog walker come every day that would break up the amount of time he is in the crate. I don't let Cali have anything to eat or drink after 8pm and I take her out at about 9pm every night. She doesnt have to go and pee again until about 6:30a in the morning. She has only pee'd in her crate 1 time and that was a couple of days after I got her. I keep her crated while I am at work and she most likely sleeps most of the time because I take her for a walk every morning before I leave to tire her out. Now that it is getting cold our routine will probably change a little and I will have to find another way to tire her out before I leave for work.
You might also want to take him to the Vet because he could have Kidney Stones or a UTI.
Hang in there with Tucker and I am sure you will find a solution to the problem:)
tlbuddy

[TuckerVA]

Perhaps I should have been more clear with the balcony idea... As some might have read in another thread, I bought him a dog door for the sliding glass door (the insert panel type) and he spends a LOT of time on the balcony. And, we all know Basenji's love to look out the window and sometimes get restless when they can't (of course this has a 'contrary' also, some like to go eat a sofa when they can't go chase that squirrel...). Anyway, I'm in construction and was thinking of building him an enclosed and insulated doghouse for the balcony with a flap type door and plexi windows (I have access to all of this stuff REALLY cheap). Install a heating pad and you have doggie paradise. If he gets cold, he simply goes inside and takes a nap, if he wants to lie outside, he has the option. The day after he peed on my rug AND my duvet, I locked him out there since the weather was nice. My dog walker left me a note and said that he was as happy as he's ever been that day and, furthermore, when she brought him back in he went directly to the balcony.

Honestly, I don't see the different between that and being locked up in a crate all day??? And, he wouldn't be out there on inclimate weather days, of course...

Again, it's just a thought. Keep in mind he's 4 and has never been crate trained (and that I adopted him which is WHY he was never crate trained)..

[jessi76]

Install a heating pad and you have doggie paradise.

it may be doggie paradise until he decides to chew the heating pad, which could lead to tragedy. Heating pads can overheat and burn an animal, or worse, if the dog chews into it, can get quite a jolt (or electrical burn) from the wires. IMO, heating pads should ONLY be used under close supervision.

Just because he's 4 and hasn't been crate trained doesn't mean it's too late. I think it's a great skill for a dog to have, and with time, patience, and some positive training you could teach him to really love a crate.

[TuckerVA]

I thought of that. They make heated beds for dogs specifically designed for this type of application as far as I know. And, for additional safety, the pad could be installed under the floor of the 'doghouse' which would prevent access. The heat would simply radiate through the floor of the 'doghouse'. As in, one layer of wood for the bottom bottom of the house, the pad, then a second layer of wood... :D

[jys1011]

Tucker it sounds like you must be very handy to be able to build a plexiglass dog house for your dog with a heated floor :D can you come to my house & do the same for our dogs?? We have a nice yard that they would love to spend the day in albeit in a glass dog house :)

BTW-I got my dogs as adults too in fact C3 is 3yo and we crate trained them so that we could go to work. We had a dog walker but Topaz was not liking her after a couple of days so we cancelled it & now they stay in the crate all day after an 1hr work out before I go to work & 1 hr work out when I get home from work. I also set up a doggy cam to see if they would get restless while I was gone or if they would cry/whimper but the truth is they REALLY DO sleep ALL day no probs. I even tried calling the house to see if they would wake up & start to get restless...NOPE they just kept snoozing LOL :)

[TuckerVA]

Just for clarification, Tucker is the dog and I'm Jason. :) And I am a bit handy, expecially with a labor crew here on site to help me out and access to all sorts of building materials and power tools. The actualy doghouse would be wood, I just planned on putting some plexi windows in it... See here:

www.jtnewton.com/Images/Jason/Doghouse.jpg
www.jtnewton.com/Images/Jason/Doghouse2.jpg

Don't mind the little man in the background, it's not to scale and conceptual at best...

:D

[ChristyRutherford]

Perhaps I should have been more clear with the balcony idea... As some might have read in another thread, I bought him a dog door for the sliding glass door (the insert panel type) and he spends a LOT of time on the balcony. And, we all know Basenji's love to look out the window and sometimes get restless when they can't (of course this has a 'contrary' also, some like to go eat a sofa when they can't go chase that squirrel...). Anyway, I'm in construction and was thinking of building him an enclosed and insulated doghouse for the balcony with a flap type door and plexi windows (I have access to all of this stuff REALLY cheap). Install a heating pad and you have doggie paradise. If he gets cold, he simply goes inside and takes a nap, if he wants to lie outside, he has the option. The day after he peed on my rug AND my duvet, I locked him out there since the weather was nice. My dog walker left me a note and said that he was as happy as he's ever been that day and, furthermore, when she brought him back in he went directly to the balcony.

Honestly, I don't see the different between that and being locked up in a crate all day??? And, he wouldn't be out there on inclimate weather days, of course...

Again, it's just a thought. Keep in mind he's 4 and has never been crate trained (and that I adopted him which is WHY he was never crate trained)..

I think your balcony idea is really nice. Squiggy HATED his crate and we worked on that forever. I have a kitchen and sitting room that has hardwood floors, and he has a twin size bed to sleep on and he still has issuse with it, although, after a year he is getting the idea of it. I could not bare to part with my boy, but I also could not have him ruining my new carpet and new home (he was my housewarming gift to my self:) so we have learned to just manage it and get a routine. I dont know what would ever happen if I got married and had to move... I guess I would make sure the guy loved my dog (and 2 hairless cats) and that we had a "safe zone" to keep Squiggy when I am not home.
I also went through 6 gates before I found ones that he could not climb over or jump and that I could.

[ChristyRutherford]

Did you get Tucker through BRAT?
Mine is a tri-color also, although he does not have the eyemask on like yours.

[TuckerVA]

Yes, I did. I got hime from a family in MA that had a baby and was scared that Tucker would eat the child due to his aggressive tendancies...but that has been discussed here...

I bet yours came with a complete tail, though... :) I'll post some pictures of him here and in the 'show off' forum later tonight...

[ChristyRutherford]

Yep, cant hang a flag from squiggys tail. It is curled tight as can be.
I am still waiting on getting my camera back from my sister, but I will post pics when I can.
My dog came from an abusive home and is really skittish, however he is doing so much better, after a year. Poor guy didnt even have a bed, he had to sleep in an outside dungon-like basement on a step. The family also didnt care where he "went" so we have battled that, as you know, forever. But he is a good appreciative boy and I love him so much, he's my buddy!

[TuckerVA]

Yeah, I dig Tucker also. It's just a learning process...for both of us. That's sad how Squiggy was treated. I loathe people who do that to animals.

When I went searching for Tucker, the two things I was most adamant about were finding a pooch that was 'non-destructive' (I've just spent 1000's of dollars buying a new condo and furnishing it like I want it) and house trained. I think I was sort of duped with the house training thing assuming there is nothing physically wrong with Tucker (in that he pees often). However, he hasn't peed in the kitchen since I fenced him in which reveals that he CAN hold it, he just hasn't been. He's going to the vet in a couple weeks and I got some sticks to test his urine with. Nothing showing positive at this point...

[ChaseandZahrasmom]

Christy,

Where did you find gates that worked? I have issues with Zahra climbing over all of ours!

Thanks,
Jenn

[ChristyRutherford]

They are extra tall gates I got off target.com. I liked that they have vertical rails not horozontal, so he cant get a toe in for a boost. I think they are 41 inches tall. and have a gate so you can walk through them.

Found them

http://www.target.com/gp/product/B0007G6KF6/601-7570993-3212956

[ChristyRutherford]

Yeah, I was a bit duped with squiggy also. Although I would never get rid of my buddy now. I just purchased my first home and know where you are coming from. Squiggy almost ruined my carpet. So I had it professionally cleaned and now the carpet looks new again (I didnt let it go to long) and Squiggy and I have worked out everything now.
Does Tucker pee on the floor when you are home with him?
Squigs doesn't.
I know, it was hard not to lay into the girl who turned him over for his poor treatment. He was scrawny, jittery and dirty now he is still pretty lean but not as jumpy and his hair is shiney and smooth now. I am just glad this family turned him over to BRAT so that I could get him and spoil the heck out of him.

[jys1011]

Christy/Jason-you guys are real heros to me! I absolutely detest animal cruelty. I wanted to adopt a BRAT dog but I couldn't get approved. Then I went to a breeder looking for a pup & turns out she had adults that she had been trying to place for over a year. So I took them in a heart beat! :)

Jenn-I have the same exact gate that Christy has 41 inches metal & vertical bars works really well.

[TuckerVA]

I never thought Tucker was abused or anything, I just think he was undersocialized and not exposed to many people. He probably got his way a lot based on how he reacts to discipline and being a brat when he doesn't get his way... He also, obviously, was lucky enough to have a stay at home mom for his previous 3.5 years which, I'm sure, lends to thinking he can pee whenever he wants.

To answer Christy's question, he has only peed once when I was home. He had let me know he wanted to go out by scratching on my door, but I was in the middle of something and was finished in about 5 minutes. In that 5 minutes, he had gone into the other room and peed on the sofa. I blamed myself since he did 'tell' me. It didn't happen again, but at the same time, he initially tried to run all over me and scratched every couple of hours to go out. In fear of another sofa soil, I would take him out but soon came to realize that he was pulling a fast one on me when he went out and just sniffed around and didn't pee or pooh. That stopped after about a week of taking him out and pretty much sitting in one spot until he peed and pooped, then not taking him out for at least 4-5 hours unless he ate a lot. I had to show him he wasn't in charge... :)

[farrahs_mom]

one suggest is if you are feed him can dog food it seems to make the pee more and it contains water