Wanted

[nomrbddgs]

Hi all, I am looking for someone who has a Fanconi afflicted dog to write a column for the BCOC newsletter. I would like the column to encompass many things, you can contact me privately if you wish under my member info is my website and my e-mail address is on my website. Thanks to anyone who can help. I think many people don't know what is involved in a fanconi dog and this may help at least one person decide to have their own dog tested.

[nomrbddgs]

Since everyone is sooooo concerned about Fanconi, but no one wants to help me on an article, I'm removing myself from a lot of the talks. I find it very disconcerting that everyone on the list jumps on everyone new about the Fanconi syndrome, and everyone says, 'We need to educate' but not one person will step up to the plate and help in a real way with a story. Is it hurtful? Yes. Is it informative? Much more so. But not one person helped in any way. Someone once said, 'If you want to use this article, just send a PM to me', which I did, twice in fact and was ignored. I'm finding people are being very hypocritical by saying one thing and then not helping out in a real way.

[Patty]

It's a shame as you say - I think such an article would help those with afflicted dogs - I suppose you want somebody in USA but wouldn't someone from Scandinavia be forthcoming?
In our magazines here we often have articles from people overseas.

[Patty]

Sorry, I meant Canada where I said USA!!

[tanza]

Thank goodness, I never had a Fanconi dog... so I would not be of much help... and there are not that many on here that have Fanconi Affecteds... I am sure Arlene that is it very painful for them to talk about... you might want to think about maybe joining other discussion lists.. or even asking maybe the ones that might be on the Fanconi list (list for only people with affected dogs) to maybe help.

[nomrbddgs]

I put the question out because I wanted a person who wasn't a breeder. Not to knock breeders at all. But it puts a different spin on it when someone walks into a breed expecting something and getting so much different because they didn't know and the breeder didn't explain to them what it was or dropped them when the issue came up. There are actually more people on this list who fall into the lines that I wanted. Someone who fell through the cracks and into a ball of wax so to speak. It doesn't matter where they come from! This is a universal afflication of the dogs.

Just because I come from Canada means nothing. I've accepted stuff from people written from around the world. I've done columns on dock diving with a Basenji, judging articles from around the world, breeding articles, ringworm articles, etc. If it's related, it's important. So thank you Patty, if you even someone from overseas can help, that is my big concern. Helping!. I did ask a breeder Pat, twice, to use her report and have been ignored both times. I know she got and read the e-mail, so saying she didn't get it doesn't wash. We've all had some very painful experiences with things we didn't want to deal with or talk about after, but we do it because it might help one other person understand it. eg cancer, thyroid issues, hit by a car, etc. This is no different. I have a dog who had HOD, that I deal with everyday with special diet, now pills and x-rays and blood tests. This is something I would never, ever want a person to deal with. Be it a breeder or a pet person. It's painful dealing with it everyday wondering if today will be a good day or a bad day.

While neither you nor I have been through it Pat, others have. How would you feel to try to figure out why your dog is suddenly peeing on the floor, not knowing what to do, losing weight, with the vet not knowing what to do either? You and I have an advantage of being well versed in the Breed, but I'm sure we would miss things as well until after the fact. After they were diagnosed the little light would come on and we would say, 'Oh, that's why.....' I'm just very frustrated that I am trying to find someone to write something so important, in the light of a personal experience, to help others, including myself, understand what may or may not happen. And then it goes back to the same old thing. 'Oh, I don't want to write about it because then they know I have a Fanconi dog.' I'm sorry to rant, but it's a vicious circle. We want to educate. We, who have never had a Fanconi dog want to understand, but can't because we've never experienced it, but when I ask, everyone clams up! I'm not asking the person to print their name. It can be put in anonymous. I just thought it was important enough to share, not just with one or two people, but for everyone who is interested, to understand what you could go through with this affliction and why we are trying to get away from it. I'm not sure I could appreciate totally what someone who has a Fanconi dog goes through, and I would think others are also wondering what is the big deal? Yes, we know it's bad. But is it worse than a thyroid issue? A seizure issue? A cancer scare? and why? Is it because of the prognosis? The amount of pills you need to give? What type of time frame? WHAT? I think many of us have these questions and really, I don't know, unless I went through it myself, because so little is actually written about the whole process from a personal standpoint, what I would or could expect. I really am sorry, I'm just so frustrated that there is so much talk around it, but no one wants to really address it. If it was something good, like the DNA linkage test, you hear so much about it and how it is great progress!

I have put it out there to others whom I know have had Fanconi dogs and I always get the same response. 'Oh, but my dog didn't have it.. it was....' and again, here we go. Sorry, I'm just really frustrated because I have been after this for about a year now and have made absolutely no progress at all. :(

I'll withdraw the question and just continue to hope we get some decent info from a brave soul who isn't afraid to say, "This is what happened to me, don't let it happen to you."

[tanza]

Why would it be different from a breeder? Caring for a Fanconi dog is no different regardless of who you are?... And many that I know found out because they strip tested, not just having problems with them peeing/drink a lot

[khanis]

Arlene,

I am a breeder AND a basenji exhibitor/owner.
I am not sure why MY experiences would not be as valid as someone who has not bred.
In fact, mine are quite worse.
Have you ever had MULTIPLE dog owners call you to tell you their dog was Fanconi affected? It is a horrific phone call.
How about when tha 6th call was not a call itself, but a call requesting that you re-test all of your dogs in the research test to be checked before their final run.
And to find out that YOUR own boy, your most prized basenji EVER, has started spilling sugar?

This does not count because I am a breeder?
I'd offer to do it and include my dog owner's views [that were given to me for an article I was writing]...
but apparently I just don't count.
Phooey on that.

[nomrbddgs]

As a breeder, I don't believe we have the same way of relating things to others. I am probably wrong, but when I say to you, I'm giving Zina a CBC, but as a precaution we are giving her Dex, Tramadol, Pepcid and Carafrate and Cefelexin, you may understand far better what I am talking about than a pet person. I find as breeders, when talking to the general public we tend to forget they are not as well versed and we start on technical terms that most people would not understand. Like I said, I am not knocking breeders at all and if I can find a breeder who will relate to the general public better than I could, without forgetting to whom I am talking, then I am all for it!

And further, the peeing/drinking was just an example. Every dog has different symptoms with some that are the same. To take this further, while strip testing WAS the norm, I'm very interested in how many are now still strip testing now that they are relying on the DNA linkage test! If they found out about it by strip testing, was that before the Linkage test? Or after?

This is what I am trying to get at! There are so many questions-and no answers until something like this comes up! I'm not accusing, I'm not blaming, I'm looking for answers and I will say it again-No one wants to admit, "I have/had a Fanconi afflicted dog!" I don't care if you have had one or not, I am simply looking for answers that may help someone else! Is there an article out there I can use that relates to everyone and say, this is a checklist, this happened to me, etc.

Kathy, I will privately contact you again. So no phooey on that!

[tanza]

My point exactly Kathy.... and just because I have breed litters... I still consider myself a pet owner, period... there are many people that have bred one or maybe two litters, they don't consider themselves anything other then a pet owner...

I don't have any problem talking to the general public.. only because I consider myself part of the general public... now if in a conversation with breeders then it is different...

[nomrbddgs]

Wrong Pat, Since we all want to get nasty, I did go with the breeder person first. I've been shot down many times. So try again.

[khanis]

I did offer my article more than once to folks....
No one has ever used the article.

White I do agree that as a breeder, I visit the vet far more often than the average folk, I know what more meds are used for...
but this isn't just due to me being a breeder.
I have had fanconi-afflicteds.
I have had multiple blind dogs.
I have had a dog with Valley Fever.
I have had a dog that shattered a bone and needed surgery.
Then the normal stuff... kennel cough, giardia, etc.

I see my vet for precautionary stuff and meds if need be.
My vet has finally bred his first [amd maybe last] litter of labs.
He understands what we go through and isn't really interested in that *crap* any more.

I can be contacted through my website or on here.. though I will confess that I don't visit her as often as most folks.

[nomrbddgs]

I will apologize to everyone. There was a miscommunication and a message I did not get privately.

I will still say, that as breeders, we tend to start talking as breeders and not as the general public and will occassionally throw in words that people do not understand. In an article, I have no problem sending it back for clarification. And if a breeder with experience wants to do the article, then I am more that happy to. Especially as I have just had something related to me that I hadn't even though of from a breeders standpoint. So, I was in total error on the breeder thing. Again, my apologies, as I did not think ahead to the statement that was put to me privately and my apologies to Pat, Kathy, and the other breeders on the forum for thinking too rigidly.

10 Lashes with a Wet Noodle for me! I am terribly sorry.

Arlene

[khanis]

I think as a breeder, I go through hell and gone for my pups and dogs.
I brought them into this world, and will go to whatever lengths it takes to make sure they are well-cared for...
I could care less what others think of me for my choices of homes..
if I wouldn't trust someone to babysit the late Benny...
then they are NOT good enough to have one of my dogs.

There are dog owners, and many on here, that get their pups/dogs from folks that MANY of us would call puppy mills or backyard breeders.
Over the years, the responsible breeders have just said *look for this* *check this out for yourself*
It is our way of having the pup owner discover the not-so-good on their own... more of a we are not pointing fingers kind of way ot helping them out.

I know there are some folks that would rather you just tell them the bad...
but this way nothing can come back to bite us in the bum. We are here for the dogs. But, we gotta CYA!

I think this was just a big misunderstanding and its all good now :-)So I guess I can get out of my jammies and let the dogs run amuck inside instead of on/under/around the trampoline!

[tanza]

Well put Kathy... and I agree

and is that one of your new pups your Avatar?

[Patty]

nomrbddgs - would you like me to have your request put in our (Basenji Owners and Breeders) magazine? It's just possible that someone here might be prepared to write for you. We do have some European (as opposed to UK) members. I personally don't know of anyone who would do it, sorry! Have you tried Steve Gonto? - he spoke movingly of his own Fanconi affected bitch at our Health Seminar.

[sharronhurlbut]

Arlene, are you still on this site?

[nomrbddgs]

I did get a very good selection from Kathy. Thanks everyone for their input. Kathy has done an excellent job helping me and I truly appreciate everything she has done. She has also given me a few truly great articles. Thank you very much Kathy, I appreciate all the help you've given me.

Thanks you Patty, I would like that very much. As I said this is a worldwide affliction and I would like to keep the column going to see the many different reactions from the many different owners of Afflicted Basenjis. We all know some definitely do better than others.

Although I do have a health column, I'm definitely trying to find things that are related to Basenji's and their issues. So if anyone has ANY health stories they would like to relate I would love to be able to print them. Actually, any stories related to Basenji's specifically. I always send a copy of the newsletter to anyone who contributes to the newsletter. It doesn't even have to be health related. We have one going right now about an airline escapee. We have also had thyroid columns, racing columns, obedience columns, I would like to get one on hunting, and any other activity that is related. I specifically asked at this time about Fanconi because of the change last year in the cheek swab.

Sorry, I'm all over the place, but my brain is going in 100 directions. So thank you everyone, sorry for all my frustrations and short temper. As I said 10 lashes-sorry, give me 20. I've been a bear.

[sharronhurlbut]

Arlene, we are all here to help you.

[Patty]

nomrbddgs - Please send me details. Our magazine doesn't come out now until October so there's time - however, I could also ask the breed notes writer in the national weekly dog paper to make the request for you.

[snorky998]

As I re-read this thread I thought about being a 1st time 'senji pet owner and what it would have meant to me if my Tyler had been diagnosed with Fanconi.

It brought to mind the old Kubler-Ross model (1969).....
Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance

Please, not to stir the pot, but I'm wondering..... when 1st time Basenji pet owners are confronted with the possibility of Fanconi in their beloved pup (you all remember the 'love at first sight' moment) don't they in fact go through something different than a breeder? I've seen it here at the forums; Denial and Anger surface first and usually in that order.

From my PPOV....we did the breed research for 5 years (online and with books), we knew about Fanconi. We contacted our Vet ahead of time to make sure she was willing to take on our Basenji and was aware of the genetic risks. We chose a pup from a breeder that was represented not only on line as reputable, but also was a co-breeder with an author from one of our books.

My second B. was researched in the same way. I LOVE them both.

Imagine then, after all that time and research you found and read this forum and you had an affected pup/dog.

Denial---of course, the breeder misrepresented themselves.
Anger--again of course.
'F' all those BYB's and Mill people that have wonderful web sites that draw in the unassuming consumer.

It IS, IMHO, different for petowners

[khanis]

First I forgot to do the multiple quotes... so going on what I can remember from 10 seconds ago :D

Arlene, I'll send you another about blind dogs... and if you want the valley fever that could be made available to you as well!


Yes, it does suck as a pet owner to have a bsaenji become afflicted with Fanconi Syndrome.
Your one basenji, or two basenjis.

But let me tell you, when you get the call... and then you are frantic calling owners of the littermates that don't return your calls, haven't bothered to test in over a year [if at all], have moved, have life get in the way.
Can you imagine the stress running through you when trying to contact other pup [[now older dog] owners?
I spent far too many hours stressing over something I had no control over.
I tried, tried, and tried many times over to get in touch with people that had dogs from me.
Some people are just flaky.

Then next month another call comes. WHAT COULD BE WORSE? is what you are thinking.

Oh, that would be getting yet another call about a sick dog. Then working it into your schedule to visit the dog and take him in for a blood draw [only to follow him around for 20 minutes when he wouldn't pee]... then he finally pees when you get to the vet... in the parking lot....
HE IS SPILLING SUGAR.
WHY? WHY? WHY?
You feel like you have been through more than the wringer at this point.

So, in 3 months time... you have had 3 diagnosed with Fanconi Syndrome.
You think life sucks when it comes to breeding.
You are ready to be done and move on to another breed.
A month or two things are going well...
then bammo!!!
ANOTHER SPILLING SUGAR!

Within a year's time we had 5 Fanconi Affecteds.....
THAT SUCKS.

Then it was Benny.
Life was totally different now.
I was done.
Hated basenjis.
Hated breeding.
Didn't want to see another basenji for the rest of my life.

Fanconi sucks. And it sucks even worse when it is your baby.

I am not sure about all those steps...
Denial --- yes, I was sure my strips were no good.
Anger --- yes, I didn't think it was fair when others who aren't diligent in
health-testing didn't have this happening to them.
Bargaining --- NEVER WENT THERE.
Depression --- yes, was there for quite a while.
Acceptance --- yep, was no place else to go.

[lvoss]

I got my first basenji 11 years ago. He is my first dog as an adult, he was bought as pet with option to show. When I got him I had no intention of becoming a breeder. I had researched the breed, gone to a couple of shows, gone to a lure trial, had planned on waiting another year before getting a dog. I fell in love with litter and decided to go ahead and contact the breeder and see if one was still available. He was and I went through the screening process, me asking questions, her asking questions.

No matter what came next, he is my companion, he is my pet. I do not know why everyone seems to think that being a breeder makes it any different.

My dogs are my companions. They sleep in bed and cuddle on the couch. They yodel when I get home and jump in my lap as I type. The difference between a breeder and the pet owner is that the breeder was the one who made the choice of who to breed, we have known them since they were little rolly polly balls moving around in their dams bellies and they are our responsibility for the entirety of their life.

[Quercus]

I got my first basenji 11 years ago. He is my first dog as an adult, he was bought as pet with option to show. When I got him I had no intention of becoming a breeder. I had researched the breed, gone to a couple of shows, gone to a lure trial, had planned on waiting another year before getting a dog. I fell in love with litter and decided to go ahead and contact the breeder and see if one was still available. He was and I went through the screening process, me asking questions, her asking questions.

No matter what came next, he is my companion, he is my pet. I do not know why everyone seems to think that being a breeder makes it any different.

My dogs are my companions. They sleep in bed and cuddle on the couch. They yodel when I get home and jump in my lap as I type. The difference between a breeder and the pet owner is that the breeder was the one who made the choice of who to breed, we have known them since they were little rolly polly balls moving around in their dams bellies and they are our responsibility for the entirety of their life.

I totally agree, Lisa. I knew from the time that Querk was very young that there was a good chance that he would be Fanconi affected. I was terrified every time I did a test strip with him...and then when his sister became affected, my heart sunk...both for her, and for him. Luckily, he is only a carrier...but I don't think being a breeder makes the whole Fanconi drama any easier or less painful.

[tanza]

And I also agree... however.. I can understand some of the points that Arlene made... with pet owners... they might not be as "tuned" into testing or health concerns.. but that said... IMO they should be... they have a living breathing animal... and they should be aware of what might come to pass...

When I got my Maggii, I was new to the breed.... two days before she whelped I found out that her Mother was spilling... I was totally crushed... I was expecting my very first litter... what was I going to do..??? Obviously I had no choice in whelping the litter.. but then I had to tell all the potential puppy buyers that there was a very good chance that any or all the pups might be affected.... for a first time breeder... let me tell you I have dumb struck... and the fact that Maggii was at super high risk.. (certainly way before the test).... every time I stripped her I was in a panic... and in the end, we lucked out.. she never got Fanconi, nor did her kids.. that was the luck of the drawl.... but she was still first my pet, my bed dog... my first show dog... all those firsts that are no different then a pet owner. And this goes for any health concern... IMO

[Tayda_Lenny]

Looks like I missed this thread - I just posted this on a different thread - maybe its too late, but my Tayda has Fanconi and this was my "day in the life" with her.

Tayda was just diagnosed in November so it's only been about 6 months that we have been managing her Fanconi. First - the pills she is on:

1/2 pet tab plus - twice a day
1/2 pet cal - twice a day
5 bicarbs - twice a day
1 potassium tablet - twice a day
1 fish oil - once a day (not for fanconi)
1 cranberry - once a day
1 centrum complete - once a week (wednesday)
1 amino fuel - once a week (friday)
1 scoopful of yogurt with probiotics in it (to help with UTIs))

So if you add it all up - she is taking somewhere between 18 - 19 pills per day, depending on which day of the week it is, separated between two meals. The good news is, all of these pills are available over the counter and are not expensive. The bicarbs and the potassium MUST be given intact, the rest can be ground up and mixed with food, provided she eats the food.

When we first started, she was on 1 bicarb 2x day. Since the bicarbs need to be given intact so I would cover them in cream cheese and she would just eat it without inspecting them. After about a week of that, she became wise to them so now I basically have to force her to eat them. It doens't matter what I hide them in, she will spit out the pill if I give them to her to eat on her own. So, I hide them in cream cheese, pry open her mouth, wipe them on the top of her mouth and she will reluctantly swallow them. As of a few days ago, I have started hiding all 5 bicarbs and the potassium in a big glop of the yogurt and if i can get that in her mouth, she will swallow it. Sometimes she spits it all out all over the floor, and I have to quickly scoop up all the pills before Lenny eats them all, and then start over again. I could grind the rest of the pills, but since she rarely finishes her food - I have been giving her the rest of the pills the same way, in case she decides she doesn't want to eat, which is most of the time.

Her food is a mix of dry and wet food. She is super picky so I am still trying to find the right foods that she will eat consistently.

I feed her one round of pills around 7am and food right after. Usually she doesn't touch the food.

I go to work and come home around 4:30pm. I check the crate she and Lenny are in for any wet spots to see if she has peed in the crate (signs of UTI). If she does have a UTI, I call the vet to get a course of Clavamox. Which means two extra pills per day for ~10 days. Luckily the vet has just trusted me that I know what a UTI looks like in Tayda - particularly since in Fanconi dogs a urinanalysis can come up normal even if a UTI exists.

Second round of pills at 7pm and food right after.

We are still getting her blood work done every 3 months until she is stabilized. Every vet visit is around $250 for the venous blood gasses and blood chemistry panel. The vet I found that has the blood gas machine is not familiar with Fanconi so I email all of Tayda's results to Dr. Gonto directly for his recommendation.

Other than the pill/meal times, everything is normal. She plays with me and Lenny, snuggles on the couch with me, gets grouchy at Lenny and turns him over on his back, chases squirrels in the yard, all the usual stuff.

i have a fenced yard so letting her out all the time is not an issue. She does drink a lot more than before, but so far there haven't been any accidents in the house that were not connected with a UTI.

Thats about it. Like I said, aside from keeping things organized with the pills and being more cognizant of what I feed her, it's all pretty much business as usual.

Oh, except - I have pretty much written off going on vacation anywhere. There is just no one around here I trust to take care of her. Which, from a selfish standpoint, SUCKS.

[tanza]

Never too late... and thanks for posting your experience with Tayda.... it is an eye opener to everyone.... Kudos to you for all that you do for her.....

[nomrbddgs]

There are different perspectives on all sides. I wonder too, how many people actually make an effort and if some, 'put on a face' about it, and if some just don't treat it because they don't think it would matter. I think it's important to have different aspects from different people's experiences. I don't understand Fanconi-unless I had a dog with it, I could never really understand it. Just like people can't understand how my Boxer Zina is being treated and what she has gone through and what she will go through. But, if I don't continue on, myself, the breeder, the vets that are treating her, and Cornell University (of which she is part of a study pod) could not draw on to treat other dogs that have some of the same issues. Even though I went into this knowing she would have variable problems, when you face them it is still a shock. I'm lucky, my kids are very good at giving Zina her pills if I am not around, and even though the breeder is about 4 hours away, I can still drop her off if need be. So I can go on vacation. It is not easy for anyone to take care of a sick dog. The same thing has followed Fanconi syndrome. If we don't have people who treat their dogs, we don't have solutions to some of the problems that can, and do, crop up.



Kathy makes very good points-she had five babies diagnosed! Before Benny! Not only does it suck, it's scary. And can anyone imagine how Kathy feels? I'm sure Kathy still feels the following (I know I would);

Denial-it can't be as bad as everyone says. How do I know, I'm not the person with the Fanconi dog!

Anger-You think she doesn't know what people are saying? Not only does she know, she has to defend herself all the time. It could have happened to any one of us!

Bargaining --- Was there a point in going there? The results spoke for themselves.
Depression --- I’m sure there are still days.
Acceptance --- What are you going to do except deal with it!

Then we have Michelle with Tayda and Lenny. She has a different perspective as well. While she probably did research the health background, it's still something you don't expect. A breeder has usually some sort of experience dealing with vets and pills and some health issues. I still say this. A pet person probably has never had to deal with anything remotely like this. I know in all my years with animals, including breeding terriers, I never had a health issue until I had the other boxer and had to deal with leukemia. Even then the pills were minimal. But dealing with Zina has taught me that even with dealing with 8 pills a day-some on an empty stomach, some with food, some not with food, and a specialized diet is tough, Fanconi would be tougher. Boxers will eat anything, not so Basenji's. Michelle's comments above put proof to this. I've had to deal with the odd pill out of the mouth, but thank goodness Zina is good with them. How hard would it be to shove the pills back in on a constant basis and/or crush them all the time?

I still believe each person still has a different perspective on the issue and it's important for all of us to hear what we could have to go through. Many of us will never have to, but it's a real eye-opener for everyone.

BTW, Michelle, you must be superorganized! Kudos to you!

[Tayda_Lenny]

lol - yeah, I am pretty organized, I should post a pic of Tayda's kitchen cupboard and shelf in the fridge. ha.

I was prompted to test when Tayda peed in the few house a few times - which she never does. Once I saw the strip turn color I immediately accepted that she had Fanconi and was frantically trying to find a vet with the venous blood gas machine. For me, the denial was before I tested her. . The breeder assured me before I got her that there was no Fanconi in her line. I trusted that (or maybe I WANTED to trust that), and I didn't test as often as I should have. My anger was directed toward the breeder when I emailed him to tell him about the strip turning color and his response was "oh, yeah, I think her mom is affected too" Come to find out her mom has been on the protocol for 5 years! Uh... I got Tayda 4 years ago - so clearly it WAS in her line. I was definitely angry. Maybe he really didn't know, although I think the person that has Tayda's mom is another breeder and pretty close with him. Who knows, it really doesn't matter now. I should have been testing more - and I'm just glad she started peeing in front of me to give me a kick in the butt.... otherwise I would have continued to turn a blind eye to it. It's not like I didn't read about it on this message board all the time. It was definitely a case of "I got MY dog from a responsible breeder, MY dog doesn't have that"

Right now, she is not having any other adverse health effects - I just watch her weight like a hawk. But, she has actually put on about 1/2 lb on her despite her refusual to eat regularly. Just last night she ate about 2/3 of her meal and I hand fed her the rest even though it was all mushy and gross. Somehow she was willing to eat it out of my hand. I'm afraid I'm teaching her to be super spoiled. Not sure how to deal with that.

I am on the Fanconi yahoo list though and am definitely aware that there are lots of other things that can crop up in Fanconi dogs - seems like they can be sometimes attributed to the loss of minerals... so I'm just trying to really keep up on her bloodwork and analyze the heck out of it. I don't accept that just cause something is in the normal range, that it is normal. I'm looking for trends now and supplementing for that. Of course with Dr. Gontos recommendations. For example, her potassium level has been decreasing with every test. It is still technically in the normal range, but its at the low end now... so I added Potassium to her pill regimen. Im not waiting for it to drop out of range. Low potassium can cause seizures and who knows what else so better safe than sorry. But that means more check ups and more $$. I'd like to think that once she's stabilized we could cut back to testing once or twice a year, but so far we're on track for every 3 months. So that will be $1000 for the year.

Fanconi for us right now is just the inconvenience of all the pills. And I want to keep it that way.

So, for prospective puppy owners - CHECK THE DATABASE.

[lvoss]

There are different perspectives on all sides. I wonder too, how many people actually make an effort and if some, 'put on a face' about it, and if some just don't treat it because they don't think it would matter. I think it's important to have different aspects from different people's experiences.

Back when BCONC was still able to do rescue and I was the rescue coordinator, we got in a 7 year old bitch that was surrendered because she "kept peeing in the house". When questioned further she had been showing signs of polydipsia, polyuria, and chronic bladder infections since she was 4 years old. We asked if they ever strip tested her to see if she was spilling sugar, "No, our vet doesn't think there is any point. There's nothing you can do if its Fanconi." We were very lucky and there was a home that was willing to take her even knowing that though we had not yet been able to strip test her yet it was pretty much certain she had it. Bijoux lived to be around 12 years old and had a very good life with her new family and responded well to the protocol.

[nomrbddgs]

Oh, there are lots of stories out there that I'm sure we all hear about. The end result is usually it's better this way! Better for whom? Another sad case-'our vet doesn't think there is any point!' Why? Because they didn't want to be bothered. I'm sorry, but some people are just basically lazy and ignorant. We can only educate those who want to learn. And sometimes, it's the people that matter (the vet) that are lazy and ignorant.

[lvoss]

It was their vet's opinion that the protocol was a waste of time and money since it was not written by a vet.

[Basenjimamma]

Wow, after reading this thread I am overwhelmed. Our Otis, 4 months old, comes from clear/normal parents, but I am so going to have him tested. This is scary business and we can not hear enough of it, IMO. It can not become on of those diseases we just learn to live with.
Michelle, thank you for that "a day in a Tayda's life" I think if more people see a thread like this before they get a Basenji from a not so reputable source they will ask the right questions and demand the answers before they take a leap and become owners of a beautiful but potential sick puppy.

Arlene, as a petowner and not a breeder I so appreciate what you are trying to make with this thread and article. Thank you.

Basenjimamma

[tanza]

Wow, after reading this thread I am overwhelmed. Our Otis, 4 months old, comes from clear/normal parents, but I am so going to have him tested. This is scary business and we can not hear enough of it, IMO. It can not become on of those diseases we just learn to live with.
Michelle, thank you for that "a day in a Tayda's life" I think if more people see a thread like this before they get a Basenji from a not so reputable source they will ask the right questions and demand the answers before they take a leap and become owners of a beautiful but potential sick puppy.

Arlene, as a petowner and not a breeder I so appreciate what you are trying to make with this thread and article. Thank you.

Basenjimamma

Amen to that.... it is scary business... especially now that it can be prevented... kudos again that test (and health test for more then just Fanconi).... For many, many years Fanconi was a disease that we just had to live with and try to breed the best way we knew how... knowing the bloodlines and the health behind the dogs.. and hoping for the best... and being crushed when you did get that call or strip tested and found your beloved pet spilling.... Now there is a test... but it doesn't just end with
Fanconi testing.. there are other genetic problems in the breed that are just as horrible, IMO.... and the only way to stop people from breeding without testing is NOT to buy from them...

[JazzysMom]

When we first started, she was on 1 bicarb 2x day. Since the bicarbs need to be given intact

We are still getting her blood work done every 3 months until she is stabilized. Every vet visit is around $250 for the venous blood gasses and blood chemistry panel. The vet I found that has the blood gas machine is not familiar with Fanconi so I email all of Tayda's results to Dr. Gonto directly for his recommendation.


.

Question: Why does the bicarb have to be intact? The paper I have with the Protocol info on it {Fanconi Disease mangement Protocol for Veterinarians by Steve Gonto} says the bicarb can be crushed somewhat and put into a gel-tab and more easily hidden in food.

Also, I guess I'm pretty lucky -- the venous blood gas test only cost me $80 at an emergency vet clinic, and the blood chemistry panel is $88, so *only* $168 total.

As I mentioned before, my vet is also not familiar with Fanconi, but is eager to learn and will be in contact w/Dr. Gonto as we move forward.

[Tayda_Lenny]

If the bicarbs are crushed and given to the dog they will neutralize whatever they are in... i.e. whatever you use to hide the pill. If they are given intact, they will buffer the dog, rather than the food. The protocol does say that if the dog is resistant to eating the whole bicarb hidden in some cheese or something that you can crush it up (as little as possible) and put it in a hollow gelatin capsule. I have never done that - I have just found ways to get them in Tayda.

That's good about the cost. I was considering asking if I could just get the bloodwork done and not have the office visit so I wouldn't have to pay the office visit fee - since it usually just consists of me saying "ok, i'll send these results to Dr. Gonto, and let you know what he says, thanks." That would save me another 60 bucks and I'd be down to about $190 also....

[tanza]

That is what I have heard and been told... about the bicards... that they should be given whole... but whatever is needed to get them into the dog... works.... most that I know have had to do the crushed and put into a gel cap....

And for Tayda... I would certain lean to just have bloodwork done... and just get the results.. since it is really Dr. Gonto that is advising his treatment... and honestly... I would be pretty pissed off with paying for an office visit with an ongoing health problem... my Vets do not charge for that....

[nomrbddgs]

Hi again guys,

Patty, did you get my message to you?

Has anyone tried those 'pocket pills'? I think that's what they are called. Apparently they are treats with a pocket in that you hide the pill. I don't know, but it may be worth a try?

[Patty]

Nomrbddgs - I think so. I have emailed my editors to get your request in our newsletter (BOBA News) and am now in the process of emailing the Basenji correspondent of Our Dogs (UK weekly).
Am I correctthat your newsletter is BCOC?
Did you send another later message? If so I didn't get one. My apologies for not replying earlier.
Incidentally - just remembered - the OD correspondent also had (many years ago) a Basenji cross Boxer. He looked just like a Basenji but Boxer size

[JazzysMom]

Tayda, where do you get your sodium bicarb? I've looked at a couple of pharmacies but can't find plain' ol' sodium bicarb. I find antacids which have sodium bicarb as an inactive ingredient, but not the 10 grains tablets.

[Tayda_Lenny]

I got mine the first time from Walgreens, but then when I went back a few months later they said they didn't sell them anymore. I went to the pharmacy at Stop and Shop (grocery store) and they had a bottle. They said that if they didn't have any they could order them or me. It is about $18 for a 1000 ct bottle.

I have also found them online at amazon.com and even on ebay, but have not bought from there yet. The brand they sell is called Concord...

This is what the bottle I have looks like (URL brand): Crappy pic but you get the idea...

[JazzysMom]

I got mine the first time from Walgreens, but then when I went back a few months later they said they didn't sell them anymore. I went to the pharmacy at Stop and Shop (grocery store) and they had a bottle. They said that if they didn't have any they could order them or me. It is about $18 for a 1000 ct bottle.

I have also found them online at amazon.com and even on ebay, but have not bought from there yet. The brand they sell is called Concord...

This is what the bottle I have looks like (URL brand): Crappy pic but you get the idea...

Thanks -- our Walgreens doesn't have them either. I guess I'll check the grocery store pharmacies and see.

[dcmclcm4]

I am with my third B with Fanconi. She turned 10 in December. Two of them were rescues. I also have a young rescue, 18 months old, who was tested via the DNA test, and is probably affected. He came from a BYB in Southern OH and his parents came from KY. He was sold with other Bs to an Amish commercial broker/breeder in central OH so his relatives are probably still breeding and the pups are being sold at petstores. He will probably stay with me permanently as he originally had socialization issues and I was working with him on that when I had him DNA tested. I have all my rescues DNA tested for Fanconi. It is much easier now that one only has to send in a cheek swab but if one of my Bs did come back probably affected then I would send in blood for research purposes.

My suggestion is not to buy from breeders who do not DNA test. If you do anyway, have your dog DNA tested. If you do not DNA test, start urine strip testing your dog monthly starting at 2 years of age and train your dog to take pills. I train mine using brewers yeast tablets coated with dog food. If you do not test your dog monthly, do not have a doggy door and make sure the vet is doing a urine test at the yearly visit. My first rescue with Fanconi was diagnosed soon after being rescued because the owners did not strip test and because the dog used a doggy door they did not notice the frequent peeing. Originally it was thought that he had an UTI. The dog had been to a vet right before being rescued but ironically no urine test was done. He was not always good at taking pills. I think he would have lived longer if he was.

[Terry]

We currently have 2 Fanconi dogs, but have had 6 altogether. We get our bicarb from Costco; they don't have it in stock, but it only takes 1 or 2 days to get it. Here in CA it is $12.75 for 1000 of them. Note: you don't have to be a Costco member to use their pharmacy!

Thanks to the DNA test, we hope never to have to worry about Fanconi again.

Terry

[kiroja]

I've gotten them at WalMart. I think it was $12.

[JazzysMom]

I've gotten them at WalMart. I think it was $12.


I checked our Walmart today; they don't carry them.

[kiroja]

Bummer. :( Now that I think about it, I think my WalMart didn't have them, but they got them from a different one and had them transfered over. Might have taken a week? Did you ask if they could check into that?

[Tayda_Lenny]

The Wal-mart here doesn't have them either. I was also told by a few places that I checked that I needed a prescription for them. BOOO....

I think online is a good option also - or Costco. I bought 2 bottles last time so I should be set for 6 months or so... its kind of amazing to think I'll go through that many!

How many bicarbs will Jazzy be taking?

[JazzysMom]

I did find the bicarb tabs at a local pharmacy -- I asked about them and the pharmacist had a huge bottle behind the counter from which he had removed a few. He said he hadn't used them for the last several months, so he sold me the rest of the bottle. I'm guessing I got 800 -900 tabs.

At this time she is taking one tab 2x daily. The little turd has already caught on and is able to eat anything from around the tab and spit it out. For that one, I am just shoving it the back of her mouth and holding her mouth until she swallows it.
For the amino and Centrum, which is 1x/week, I crush them into moist food. She is on to that though and I'm really having to stir it in well. It's amazing me how adept she is at eating canned food from around the little teeny pieces of pill, LOL.

Would have been much easier had Keoki been the one -- he eats any treat by the inhalation method and asks "what was that" after it's swallowed whole. Jazz has always been very fussy about what she'll eat -- sniffs it first, then a couple of little licks, then daintily taking it into her mouth... harder to sneak stuff into a dog like that, LOL.

Ah well, it'll be fine; we will get done what must be gotten done.
It's only been a week and we've already noticed a change in her; she's more active and isn't spending quite as much time in her crate.

[Tayda_Lenny]

The little turd has already caught on and is able to eat anything from around the tab and spit it out. For that one, I am just shoving it the back of her mouth and holding her mouth until she swallows it.

Tayda does the SAME thing - drives me nuts. I've tried lots of different things - now I'm using that EZ cheese stuff that comes out of a bottle - squeeze a little on my finger, stick the pills in - pry Tayda's mouth open and wipe it on the top of her mouth. She will swallow it all about 90% of the time. I hate having to force her like that, but she will not eat ANYTHING without fully inspecting it anymore. She will eat around the crushed up pet tabs and pet cal also so I will just use the EZ cheese for those also. Strangely, the Amino fuel - she will eat on its own like a treat.

[JazzysMom]

Tayda does the SAME thing - drives me nuts. I've tried lots of different things - now I'm using that EZ cheese stuff that comes out of a bottle - squeeze a little on my finger, stick the pills in - pry Tayda's mouth open and wipe it on the top of her mouth. She will swallow it all about 90% of the time. I hate having to force her like that, but she will not eat ANYTHING without fully inspecting it anymore. She will eat around the crushed up pet tabs and pet cal also so I will just use the EZ cheese for those also. Strangely, the Amino fuel - she will eat on its own like a treat.

Jazz, so far..., likes the Pet-tabs and eats those with no problem. The Pet-cal she ate willingly the first few days, now she puts it down and licks it a few times before slowly eating it. I have a feeling that may become a pill I have to crush and hide eventually.
I never thought to try and see if she'd just eat the amino tabs. Hmmm, probably won't, but it's worth a shot.

Another "problem" -- how to keep Keoki from getting fat due to Jazzy's Fanconi. :pI mean, I can't keep giving her cheese, etc. and not give him a nibble. He can smell it and gets really excited. LOL And the canned food I have to add to her kibble now to get her to eat... so now he gets a canned/kibble mix. He is really benefiting from this situation. :rolleyes:

[Tayda_Lenny]

Oh, thats really funny - I totally know what you mean. Lenny has gained 3 lbs since Tayda was diagnosed... He's on a diet now. I let him lick the EZ cheese of my fingers after i give it to Tayda but that's about it. He gets smaller treats fewer times a day... He is a voracious eater who also subscribes to the Inhale now, ask later, policy.

Tayda usually won't eat the Pet Cal or the Pet Tab on her own. Strange, cause I've been giving her and Lenny Pet Tabs for years and she always ate them just fine out of her food. I think all the pills just have her on high alert now. It's pretty funny to watch her with the amino fuel though - she will play bow to it and smack it around a little before eating it. What a wierdo!

[JazzysMom]

Today I had put Jazzy's morning bicarb tab in her mouth and was holding her, petting her, rubbing her throat --usually a pretty successful and stress-free way to get her to swallow her pills -- and she managed to spit the bicarb out.

Keoki, ever on the alert for anyone getting some treat and constantly fearing that he is missing out, pounced on that tablet and ate it. You could tell he didn't like it, and kept licking his lips afterward as if he was trying to get rid of something nasty. But he kept it and ate it --wasn't ABOUT to let Jazz get something he couldn't have.

What a dork. LOL