Winter behavioral issues

[LSanders]

Hi all, I'm a newbie. This seemed like the best thread to post this, since it pretty much expresses how my boyfriend and I are feeling right now. I’m so glad I found a forum that has had posts more recently than 2005! Most basenji forums I’ve looked at seem to be pretty stagnant.

We have an 8-year-old neutered male basenji, Montana. We've had him since August 2005. We got him from close friends. They couldn't keep him because he's not very child-tolerant and they were having twins. They'd had him since he was a puppy and was their first "child" :)

He's usually a pretty good dog. We live in a condominium and he's crate-trained. We haven't experienced any of the basenji horror stories of him breaking out of his kennel or anything. He's usually quite fond of his kennel- it's his space and sometimes will go in there voluntarily. My boyfriend and I both work full-time during the day and he’s in there for 8-10 hours. Usually, it’s not much of a problem. He’s very happy to see us when we get home and is ready to go outside. I know this isn’t the ideal situation for a basenji, and I know he’s not getting the activity he needs, but we’ve become attached to him (and vice-versa) and don’t want to see him end up who knows where or put to sleep.

Tana isn't too destructive, relatively speaking- he's never destroyed furniture or torn up a pillow. About the worst we've experienced was one time when his kennel door didn't get closed before we left for work, so he had eight hours of free time in the house. He tore into some garbage and ate some kleenex, which made a big mess, but nothing permanent. He can be quite a curmudgeon and aloof, but can also be very cuddly and friendly once he gets to know someone. He’ll play fetch in short bursts. He has a sensitive stomach, so we have to be careful about what we feed him, so a Kong is not a consistent option.

This is our second winter with him (and oh, is it winter-y here in Chicago? Oh yes! With no end in sight!) Last winter he was a nervous wreck- that's when his previous owners told us he gets cabin fever during the winter and gets really anxious. Besides the usual basenji behavior of yodeling and general grumpiness, he was also urinating in his kennel and on the couch quite a bit. We took him in for his yearly exam last February, had him checked for bladder issues, diabetes, Fanconi's, etc. and everything was negative, so it was determined to be a behavioral issue. We made a few changes- not letting him on the couch anymore and supervising him more closely in the house, closing off certain rooms. By the time spring rolled around, his mood was better and the urinating stopped (except for a few instances, which were truly accidental; I can't blame him for that.)

Up until the past couple weeks, we thought his cabin fever for this year was nearly non-existent. He hadn’t urinated in the house in months and he was pretty good tempered. One factor contributing to this is probably that I’ve been out of work since early November, so I’ve been at home and he’s been out of the kennel whenever I’m there. As it just so happens, I just found a new job and start back tomorrow. He must have sensed this or something, because in the two weeks since I found out, he’s become a terror.

All of a sudden, he’s urinating in his kennel and in places around the house on a daily basis (some days more than once.) We’ve tried regimenting his water intake- giving him water, then taking him outside 20-45 minutes later when he should be ready to go. Some days this works, some days not. He doesn’t seem to indicate when he has to go about half the time now, by going to the door, which wasn’t a problem before.

Before the past couple of weeks, when we’d put him in his kennel at night, he understood that it was time for bed and he was fine. We’d feed him in his kennel and he’d be snoring within 10 minutes. Sometimes he wasn’t happy about it, if he heard us up and about, but he’d settle down. Last week, he refused to stop crying and scraping on his kennel door; it was like his life depended on it. It went on for about an hour and finally, I had to sleep on the couch, with him tethered with a leash to the coffee table and he slept all night. For that night, I did it because I figured maybe he had some separation anxiety or something, but it hasn’t stopped. The night before last, he was doing it for over two hours. He’d do it for about 3 minutes, then stop for 5, do it again for a few minutes, stop for awhile. It’s like doggie night terrors or something. Last night, he only did it for about 20 minutes.

I’ve scheduled a vet’s appointment for the day after tomorrow, for his regular yearly exam and to have him tested again for all the possible medical reasons for urination. We’re not going to make any decisions until we make sure it’s not a physical issue, until I’ve been back at work for a few weeks and his schedule is back to normal, and until the weather is better. It’s been frigidly cold here, so neither Tana nor myself wants to be outside for more than a few minutes. I’ve been sucking it up and forcing myself and him to stay outside, walking for a longer time, but it doesn’t seem to be enough.

My mom half-jokingly suggested we put him on Prozac or something. Normally, I’d scoff at it, but I’m starting to seriously consider it as it seems to be our only option in the winter months.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Anyone have experience with using anti-depressants on dogs?

Sorry for this huge post, I just wanted to give the full picture.

[nala121498]

I'm not sure what to tell you but I hope you can get some assistance to solve this for you guys. It does sound like a case of doggie SAD. He seems a bit lonely...I know my baby isn't happy unless she's snuggled with us...but they are all different. Please keep us posted on what the vet says...

[Quercus]

I just want to clarify that his urine has been checked for the presence of glucose? Or have his blood gas levels been checked? Those are the ways to check for Fanconi...some vets don't know...they run a urinalysis, that doesn't necessarily include looking for glucose. It sounds like he is having some sort of illness to me...a dog that doesn't normally urinate in his crate starting to,usually indicates something is wrong. I would imagine your vet has checked for a urinary tract infection, or stones...that is the first thing that would occur to me.

I have had dogs that are normally fine in their crates start carrying on desperately when they are having a UTI, or urinary crystals. Your description doesn't sound like separation anxiety, which would be appropriately treated by medication. The fact that he will happily go into, and fall asleep in his crate..then start freaking out later, doesn't sound right for SA.

It could be a case of urinary incontinence as well...he is approaching the age that these sorts of things start to show..especially if the he just doesn't seem to be able to hold it.

To me, the whole situation sounds medical, rather than behavioral.

Just a couple of ideas...hopefully whatever it is will be a quick fix.

[LSanders]

Thanks all- the vet's appt. is tomorrow, so I'll keep you posted and I'll ask about the type of test they do.

[MaxBooBooBear]

If it turns out that it isn't a medical problem, I would take him to see an animal behaviorist. I took mine to see a specialist at a great veterinary college (his regular vet referred us), and they did a very thorough history and evaluation and were very helpful. They did not actually put him on any long term medication--just mild tranquilizers to use as needed--which I rarely used. But I did have a friend whose dog they put on prozac--and she said it did wonders for his separation anxiety--but he had an extreme case.

[RockysWoman]

My Rocky get's "cabin fever" in the winter also and when he feels he's ben slighted, he'll urinate. Normally this occurs in his kennel but occasionally we'll catch him drawing in big circles on the kitchen floor (lots of fun to clean up, let me tell you). We're in the Chicago-land area also so we are familiar with how short a time frame the dogs can be outside before freezing. To help combat this, we found a good doggy coat (our are Land's End dog blankets) for him to wear to help cut the chill from the wind. This will allow us another five minutes outside on a bad day.

The only thing I have found to combat the behavioral urination (once you rule out all medical issues), is to go back to puppy training and the reward system. Everytime you catch your dog doing something right, reward (be it food or praise). We've found a couple days of intense "catch & reward" works wonders and the urination stops. Find indoor games of catch, play, tug, etc he can work on. I know it doesn't handle the exercise requirements but for Basenji's in Chicago-land, it's all we can do to keep them from freezing their paws off in the snow.

Good luck!

[LSanders]

thanks for all the advice- Tana's appointment went well tonight. The vet said he has some proteins in his urine- nothing extreme, but more than usual. He said it could be just the way he is, it could be a minor infection (but there's no white or red blood cells, so that's not likely) or it could be a sign of Fanconi's. No glucose, though. He said they needed to do another test, called a quantitative micro...I can't remember exactly what it was called. Basically, it would compare the levels of protein to some other chemical in his urine and it would determine if it was Fanconi's.

The sample has to be that first morning urine when it's potent. He also needs his teeth cleaned and a small benign growth on his leg removed, both of which require general anesthesia, so I think we'll drop him off the night before and they can get the sample they need in the morning.

The vet drew blood for some pre-op liver levels and I need to schedule the procedure for some time in the next month. I was sort of distracted when I heard there wasn't glucose in there (phew!) that I didn't get to ask about the anti-depressants or other meds for his mood and anxiety. The doctor's going to call back in the next couple of days with the results of the blood work, so I'll mention it to him then. I think even if he okay'ed us trying it, by the time he got on the meds and got used to it, it would be spring and the issue will have disappeared. So, I'll talk to him about it for next winter.

How expensive does it usually cost to see an animal behaviorist? Is there a website that lists accredited ones? I don't want to get some whack job!

Like I said in my original post, I haven't found a toy that holds his attention for more than a few minutes. The few times we've given him a Kong (filled with peanut butter) he's really liked it, but he's too quick about getting that food out and we have to be careful about what we give him. I guess I have to be more creative. Any ideas? I'm trying to think of some of those tricks zookeepers use for polar bears, big cats, other animals that are prone to cabin fever in the zoo. Maybe freezing some kind of food in an ice cube (he loves ice cubes!) Maybe some treats in a box that he'll have to figure out how to open. We've found some treats that are really basic dog cookies- they're made with normal household ingredients, not a bunch of stuff I've never heard of, so they seem to agree with him. Plus, they're small, so he can get more. ...off to search for a toy thread....

ETA: I don't see a toy thread...is there one?

Oh, Rockyswoman, can you tell me more about your Lands End dog coat? You said it's made out of a blanket? Right now he just has a sweater (argyle- so cute!) and I'd like something that covers his legs and/or belly, since that's where he gets the coldest. I've only found one dog coat that covered the dog's legs, but it was pink and made more for chihuahua-type dogs.

[LSanders]

Well, Tana came back from an overnight vet trip today. He had his teeth cleaned, a little growth on his leg removed and since that other urine test for Fanconi's had to be done with the first morning sample, I dropped him off last night so they could collect it this morning.

The test came back negative, which is good, but I still don't have a medical reason for his seemingly obsessive water drinking and frequent peeing. It's gotten a little better the past 4-5 weeks, but there was one weekend day, where he had a small drink, went outside, then came back in and peed in his kennel 3 times within 3 hours. Huh?

I wasn't able to pick him up at the vet, so my boyfriend did and he didn't ask the right questions, so I'm going to call the vet tomorrow with some follow-up stuff. Does anyone know the healthy amount of water he should be drinking? I've heard one ounce for every pound he weighs, but I wanted a second opinion on that. Our first step will probably be to make sure he gets about that much water and see if things improve. I'm hoping with the better weather, it will also improve, but I am going to talk to the vet about anti-depressants, at least for next winter.

[Quercus]

does he pee a lot when he isn't in his kennel? or is it only related to the kennel?

FWIW, I have never heard of a vet requiring a first urine of morning for a Fanconi test. The urine test is really simple...either there is sugar in the urine, or there isn't. THEN a test called a blood gas should be run. That is the definitive test for Fanconi.

From the outside I would wonder if your vet knew what to look for for Fanconi. I could be completely off base here...but it might be something to consider. There are many vets that have never seen Fanconi (or a basenji) before.

Have you tested Tana for sugar in the urine yourself? You can (and should)buy Diastix at some drugstores (definitely online) and test his urine for sugar every month. Make sure you make it clear to the pharamcist that you need the ones that check for sugar in the urine...sometimes they will tell you 'you don't need that' because there are better tests for diabetics now...but explain it is for a dog that may have a disease that spills sugar in the urine.

The symptoms sound like Fanconi. And if I were you, I wouldn't rest until I saw the results that said "there is no sugar in the urine".

Good luck :)

[MaxBooBooBear]

[QUOTE=LSanders]
How expensive does it usually cost to see an animal behaviorist? Is there a website that lists accredited ones? I don't want to get some whack job!/QUOTE]

It was several years ago, and it wasn't cheap--I think around $175--but worth every penny! Your vet may be able to recommend one. Mine was a vet that specialized in animal behavior at an excellent veterinary college. We only needed to go for one visit (it was about 2-1/2 hours because they were very thorough). Then, I would call with updates on Max, and we talked on the phone a few times (no charge).

[RockysWoman]

Oh, Rockyswoman, can you tell me more about your Lands End dog coat? You said it's made out of a blanket? Right now he just has a sweater (argyle- so cute!) and I'd like something that covers his legs and/or belly, since that's where he gets the coldest. I've only found one dog coat that covered the dog's legs, but it was pink and made more for chihuahua-type dogs.[/QUOTE]

We got ours thru Land's End (the clothing retailer). Their doggie coats are made of the same materials as their winter parkas. They normally have a tough velcro front (long overlaps across the chest so no breeze gets in) and a belly band that velcro's high on the side. It pretty much covers our Papillion's entire belly; Rocky's belly band doesn't quite cover his entire belly but it certainly does make a difference! Haven't found any coat for a medium sized dog that has legs attached to it. Ever thought of tube socks? (We put our old ratty baby socks on the dogs to keep the snow from packing between their toes while running around outside.)

Good luck!

[LSanders]

Ok, I found out the name of the test he was given- it was a Urine Protein Creatnine test, and it's basically to determine if he has excessive proteins in his urine. The vet said that since the level was normal, there was no reason to go into further testing.

I also found out that 900-1200 mL per day is a healthy amount of water for him, so we're going to have to start measuring his water. :rolleyes:

When he goes in to get his stitches taken out, I'll ask about the anti-depressants for next winter.

[Quercus]

Nope....vet should be looking for sugar in the urine, not proteins. Honestly, I am not making it up. I hate to say this, but your vet is not looking for the right things. Your dog is presenting with symptoms of the most common genetic disease in the breed. Go here to read all about it, and if you have to, print it out for your vet.

http://www.basenji.org/?q=node/36

[nomrbddgs]

Peeing his crate 3 x's in 3 hrs?? That is extremely excessive. I'll go with Quercus/Andrea on this one. Sounds like a medical problem. Check thyroid as well as that can cause really odd problems. Also please don't tell me you filled the KONG with PB! You really only need a little way up inside so they have to work on it to get it out. You may want to get a smaller kong if he's getting the PB very easily. He may also have depression! He's had a few changes and may not be quite as secure which may compound any problems he may have!

[lvoss]

You can test your dog's urine yourself for glucose. Here is a link with what you need and how to do it. http://www.barkless.com/guide/strip.html

[spitfirekrl1]

Regarding the PB/kong, you can also try freezing the kong with the PB inside so that it isn't so easy to get out. There are a few really good threads on here with toy ideas. There's a few in the 'Basenji talk' section that have some really good suggestions but it's just a matter of searching, there's a LOT of posts in here on a daily basis so if you're not keeping up it takes a while to search for specific things. Good luck and definately get the urnie sticks... I have to commend you for your efforts/concern, you're a very good B-mom.

[Quercus]

FTR....my dogs hate PB...all of them!?!

When I stuff a Kong, I use creamcheese and kibble or broken biscuits. I also will use cheeze whiz in a sterilized bone. My dogs seem to like the sterilized bones better than the kongs.

Frozen canned catfood, or bratwurst also works well for stuffing. As Spitfire mentioned, there are a bunch of toy ideas somewhere here.

[nomrbddgs]

There are always good ideas hopping around-and always alt. to pb,anything that can be stuffed into them!

[LSanders]

The test my vet did initially back in February found no glucose in his urine.

No, I didn't literally FILL a kong with peanut butter! It was 2 or 3 knife-fulls with a couple of small treats.

Since the last test, I've been giving him about 1000 ml of water every day. He doesn't always drink that much, but he's able to get at least that much. He hasn't peed in his kennel once, he's not pitching fits at night, he's a lot more relaxed and he's peeing a more significant amount when we take him out. And winter's over. I don't think that's a coincidence. I'll still try to get some glucose strips to monitor the situation, but I'm chalking this up to a seasonal thing. When he goes to get his stitches taken out from his leg later this week, I'm going to talk to them about anti-depressants or something for next winter.

Thanks for all your help!

[Quercus]

Well, two variables changed at once right? The season turned, and you limited his water. So to know which one helped you might want to offer him unlimited water again during the nice weather, and see if the episodes come back.

I think it is possible that this is a behavior disorder, but I would be much more inclined to guess that is a form of dog OCD with the water drinking, than something having to do with the weather. I have never heard of dog seasonal disorder, and I don't think that they treat SD in humans with antidepressants, but with melatonin? Someone feel free to correct me if I am wrong. But, I think before I pursued an antidepressant, I would want to consult with a veterinary behaviorist. Also, the intent with dog anti-depressants is to use behavioral modification while treating, so the dog can be weaned off the drug in time. You probably already know this, but I feel it is worth stating. It sounds like you are already doing some effective behavior mod, and that is a good thing.

I am glad that your vet did check for glucose, my faith is restored ;) And yes, it is important that every Basenji owner test month for glucose in the urine. I found them on Amazon.com under Bayer Diastix for $13.99 for 50 strips.

[nomrbddgs]

I'm glad it's clearing up for you.

[PhocoenaGirl]

We took him in for his yearly exam last February, had him checked for bladder issues, diabetes, Fanconi's, etc. and everything was negative, so it was determined to be a behavioral issue. We made a few changes- not letting him on the couch anymore and supervising him more closely in the house, closing off certain rooms. By the time spring rolled around, his mood was better and the urinating stopped (except for a few instances, which were truly accidental; I can't blame him for that.)

All of a sudden, he’s urinating in his kennel and in places around the house on a daily basis (some days more than once.) We’ve tried regimenting his water intake- giving him water, then taking him outside 20-45 minutes later when he should be ready to go. Some days this works, some days not. He doesn’t seem to indicate when he has to go about half the time now, by going to the door, which wasn’t a problem before.



Don't know if you still have Tana or still have a problem but I recently found this forum and was reading old threads. I thought that in case you still get email notification on this, I'd comment for you.

I can't believe how much this sounds like Cushing's disease that my previous dog (dalmation mix) died from. If you're still having his urination problems, and he's negative for Fanconi's, kidney failure and diabetes, the next test should be for Cushings. It is basically either an adrenal gland or pituitary gland carcinoma that causes increased cortisol and ADH secretion. You would notice both increased urination, "forgetting housetraining" but not like he was marking, increased thirst and shape change. Cushing's dogs get very wan, thin faces and start getting large in their torso and abdomen. Additionally, due to the increased cortisol, symptoms of arthritis and other chronic pain conditions actually will decrease or disappear. Once they have Cushing's, they can be placed on medication to control the symptoms. My vet told us that progression of the cancer is about 2-3 years unless you treat for cancer. We were told the adrenal gland form is treatable (although not a great success rate) and can be biopsied, while the pituitary form can't be biopsied (the pituitary is in the center of the two cerebral hemispheres of the brain) and isn't treatable. With the medication our 11 year old dalmation got two more good years and until about 4-5 months before he died, the urination problems were solved. We did have to keep increasing his dosage and monitoring him with the vet.

[LSanders]

Very interesting, PhocoenaGirl. I looked up the other symptoms of Cushing's (on this (http://www.animalhospitals-usa.com/dogs/cushings_disease.html) site) and they specifically said excessive thirst/urination, increased appetite, weight gain around the belly (more due to the abdominal muscles getting weaker than actual weight gain- they just look more "pot-bellied"), lethargy, panting, losing/thinning fur on the torso and frequent skin infections.

Obviously, he has the thirst and urination issue. He's always had a healthy appetite, and he's always been a bit more lazy than other basenji's. But over this past summer, there were a few times when he'd be panting more than usual. I don't know about other basenji's, but Tana's not a panter, and the few times he has panted a lot, it was obvious that it was hot and he'd exerted himself recently. Cooling off and a drink helped, but this summer was relatively mild compared to past summer and still, there were a few times he was panting, out of the blue. I have noticed his fur thinning a little on his sides. I noticed it about 6 months ago, so I attributed it to his summer coat, but now I'm noticing it's not getting as thick as it usually does this time of year. And the frequent skin infections (another website also said "thin skin") also worries me because suddenly this year, he's been getting callouses on his elbows, some of which look a little raw. We really do keep him out of the kennel as much as we possibly can, but I thought maybe he's just been in there more because my boyfriend and I have been working more, so maybe s was in there more. But now I'm thinking that's what this is.

Well, I'm glad we maybe have something to go on. I'm going to call the vet tomorrow and see if he was tested for Cushings at his check-up back in February. If this is Cushings, could anyone give me an idea of the cost of the drugs they use to treat this? That article I linked to seems to say they can treat it surgically or just with medicine.

[lvoss]

Another thing you may want to have him tested for is hypothyroidism. Though that does not explain the excess water drinking, the signs can include lethargy, weight gain, and skin problems.

[tanza]

And if Cushings (just like if it was Fanconi), many times they had thyroid problems on top of the main problem.

Have you been strip testing him, even though he was negative for Fanconi when he was checked before?

[sharronhurlbut]

I admire your working to get to the physical issue your dog has.
I really to think its medical, and not all "in his head".
good luck and keep us posted.

[LSanders]

Well, I left a message at the vet's office just after posting that at 12:30am on Saturday. They called me back on Saturday afternoon and said Cushing's was not included in the tests they had run before, and advised I could drop off a urine sample anytime this week. I was planning to wait until this Friday, as I have the day off and could take Tana out and get that potent first pee of the morning :rolleyes:

Monday, I went to work at 6:30am and my boyfriend called at 7:30, said he had taken Tana out, discovered he'd pooped in his kennel over night. He took him outside, and brought him back in. He had him leashed in the house while he cleaned the kennel and Tana proceeded to poop and pee on the floor, and appeared to be straining to pee. I immediately called the vet's office, left a message, as they didn't open until 9:00. They called me at about 8:30, said that they were concerned that maybe he had a blockage and would need to be catheterized. So, I rushed home, grabbed the dog, ran him over to the vet's office. They looked at him and determined there was no blockage. They took another urine sample to test for UTI and a preliminary test for Cushing's (a urine cortisol:creatinine ratio test.) The UTI test they did in-house and it was negative. The sent the UCCR to an outside lab.

Today, there was a message from the vet's office. It was from the head vet himself, so I immediately knew they found something. They did find elevated levels of cortisol in his system and they want to do the full blood work to further determine what's going on.

I think high cortisol can just mean he has a thyroid problem, right? I found out that my co-worker's late dog had Cushing's. I'm concerned because she said it got expensive. Not the medicine necessarily, but you have to consistently get lab tests done to monitor their levels. I'm not sure if the same kinds of tests are done with thyroid problems or not.

My boyfriend and I are not the kind of people who break up with animals- we both grew up with pets and never did our families put one down because they became inconvenient. Neither of our families had a lot of money, but we took care of our pets through all sorts of health problems and keeping them alive and comfortable until it as no longer humane to do so was how we were raised. It's really breaking my heart right now that I'm not sure I can do the same for our dog. I'm trying not to dwell on it too much until we know what's wrong and hear from the vet what the course of treatment will be and cost, but I think I'm going to be a wreck until that happens. :(

[PhocoenaGirl]

Harley (my dalmation mix) who had Cushings, I had when I was in high school so I didn't actually pay for the medication but I do remember that about every 2-3 months he had a check up with blood testing. I will contact my parents (who paid for all that back then) and find out what the costs were for Harley's meds and testing so in case Tana has Cushings, you can have an idea of cost.

Just as an FYI, Harley was diagnosed when he was 10 and he lived pretty happily until about 2 months before he died at 12. He actually died from a GI cancer which probably wasn't related to the Cushings so if Tana has the disease, he has several years of happy life ahead with treatment and it certainly isn't a death sentence. Hopefully, Tana likes your vet though because I remember that Harley went a lot - like every 2-3 months to get blood testing done to make sure the dosage was correct.

I agree with a couple other posters too that you might want to have some thyroid testing done as well if the Cushings test is negative.

Don't make yourself a wreck over this. Just waiting can be tough but go hug Tana and he will always make you feel better. Don't forget he knows you love him no matter what winds up happening.

[wizard]

My previous beastie had a thyroid problem and it took several trips to the vet to figure it out. So I understand what you are going through. Hang in there and don't throw in the towel yet -- an answer will come.

[LSanders]

So we got the confirmation this weekend that Tana has Cushing's.

The vet prescribed a medication called Trilostane, which is supposed to not have the nasty side effects (like, oh, death) that the other drug, Lysodren, has. Only catch is that it's hard to get in the US- it's not approved by the FDA and it's not exactly illegal, but you have to order it through special pharmacies and they get it from Europe. It will be about $73/month. It's expensive for us, but not horrible. I'm probably going to get a second job (I work just under 40 hours a week, but over the course of 4 days, so I have an extra day anyway) to supplement the costs a little. I found another message board for people with dogs who have Cushings, http://www.caninecushings.net/ to get some more specialized advice if I need it.

Thanks for all the advice and support- we would have just gone on not knowing what was wrong with him, assuming it was just behavioral or old age.

[nomrbddgs]

Good luck in the future. Whatever happens, I know you have the best interests of everyone at heart.

[PhocoenaGirl]

I'm glad you finally have confirmation of what troubling your boy. I checked with my parents and our vet had Harley on Lysodren (wasn't aware at that time of any other drug) and they were paying about $55 a month for it. The biggest expense for them was the vet visits and blood draws every 2 months, which our vet wanted to make sure that the dosage was correct and not overly limiting cortisol output. Because of the potential for cortisol levels to drop like crazy and other nasty, possibly fatal side effects, our vet wanted to keep tabs on the bloodwork often.

Hopefully the new drug your dog will be on, although a bit more expensive, won't require so many vet visits and blood draws to check the status. If you want to know anything else or to keep tabs as you go along, please post that you want to contact me via email and I am sure the forum admin can help us figure out contact info.

[LSanders]

So, an update. He's been on medication (trilostane- we found a less expensive pharmacy, so it's only $40/month) and his cortisol levels have gone down, but he's still having symptoms. His fur and skin is very thin. He's drinking and urinating a lot. We'll take him outside every 45-60 minutes, he'll pee a little bit; then you bring him back inside and in 10 minutes, he pees twice as much on the floor without any indication that he needs to go out again. We stop giving him fluids in the evening and take him out at least two times after then. Somehow, overnight, he'll pee in his kennel again. He drinks it (yuck!) and then just keeps peeing over and over again until morning. We got him one of these Ugodog things in hopes that he'll use it, but no luck. We just bought a new kennel that the Ugodog will fit inside of so that he'll use it in there and not be able to "clean up", so that at least it will break the cycle. I've talked to our vet and he just suggest wants to run more tests; I can afford the medicine he needs and the occasional blood test to monitor his cortisol levels, but we're not working with an endless supply of money, here.

Today, I took him out of his kennel and he has a quarter-sized spot on his side that's completely bare. No fur, but it's not quite raw (moist) looking yet. I gave him a bath to clean him off and put neosporin on the sores.

We're at the point where we're thinking of re-homing him in the near future. We talked to our friends who we got him from about what they thought. The breeder they got him from was, from their description, running what was essentially a puppy mill, or at least just not good conditions. Our friends admit they were young and naive when they got him, but don't want to see him go back to her (and she's moved a few times since then, so it would be hard to track her down.)

I just feel like we're running out of options. I want to find out what's wrong with him, but even if we do, my fiance and I both work 8 hours a day and we live in a condo. While he could get better for awhile, eventually he's going to need to be in a home where he's out of the kennel for more time and has someone to let him outside more often. :(

[dmcarty]

lets think about some basic things that are not related to Cushings but may help quality of life.

1 - on the bare spots on the skin - go to Target, Walmart etc and in the health food suppliment section get some liquid E to rub into the bare spots (if they only have a cream find the one that has the most E - or you can get E liquid capsules and break them open - it will stimulate hair growth.

2 - Have to tried a Belly Band when he is out of the crate? A Belly Band is about 4-6 inches wide and velcroes around the back to contain 'parts'. You actually put a 'pad' in the area - so 1 it absorbs urine and IF there is some 'habit' part of the frequent urination - they get to live with it. Probably won't work in the crate verywell but will help a lot when he is loose in thehouse.

[LSanders]

Thanks for the advice- I should rub the vitamin E right on there? Giving him the pill orally won't help?

I haven't tried the belly band. I'll keep it in mind, though.

The Ugodog in the kennel with him has been helpful. He, nor our house, no longer reek of urine, and that's made a difference for all of us.

[lvoss]

Does Tana have a pituatary tumor which is inoperable or does he have an adrenal tumor? Some adrenal tumors are operable and after removal the dogs can recover and return to normal cortisol production. You may have to seek a specialist but it may be worth looking into.