Alternative Colors?

[goldenfri]

I was looking at the Basenji description on the AKC website and I noticed that there seems to be non accepted alternative colors listed:

Colors

Description Type Code

Black & White S 019
Black Tan & White S 030
Brindle & White S 059
Red & White S 146
Black Brindle & White A 021
Blue Cream & White A 346
Cream & White A 077
Mahogany Tan & White A 347
Sable & White A 165

The last 4 colors I have never heard of and sound interesting. Does anyone have any pictures of basenjis with these colorings?

http://www.akc.org/breeds/basenji/color_markings.cfm

[Quercus]

Actually, they are all accepted...but in the show ring the last five would be considered a color fault. There is much argument about the Black, Brindle and White (or trindle) because it is a commonly occuring color when you breed a tri (or a dog carrying tri genes) to a brindle. But that is probably more info than you want ;)

The other four colors are quite rare...so it is not a big issue among current day breeders. But IF you had one, you could certainly show it, but most judges would have no idea what color it is, or what to do with it.

If you go to this website:

http://www.basenji.org/african/project.htm

you can see some examples of other colors. Avongara Siri of Brushy Run is registered as a cream, I think....and I think what is called 'Sable & White' might be currently refered to as a "saddle marking" but I am not totally sure.

It is really fascinating, and sad (IMO) that the other colors were effectively bred out because early breeders prefered certain colors.

[BDawg]

Looks like a lot of the new African dogs featured on that website do not have very curly tails.

[lvoss]

The very curly tails that most people are used to in the domestics is a trait that has been selected for by breeders since they were first imported in the late '30s onward. If you look at the pictures of the early imports you will see that there was a large variety in the amount of tail curl.

Interviews with native people suggest that the very tightly curled tails are not preferred for hunting in bush because if they do not uncurl readily when snagged they lead to tail injuries and amputation.

[Quercus]

The very curly tails that most people are used to in the domestics is a trait that has been selected for by breeders since they were first imported in the late '30s onward. If you look at the pictures of the early imports you will see that there was a large variety in the amount of tail curl.

Interviews with native people suggest that the very tightly curled tails are not preferred for hunting in bush because if they do not uncurl readily when snagged they lead to tail injuries and amputation.

Not to mention catching stuff like a big paperclip! I noticed someone has a pic in the gallery of a dog with grass? caught in her tail? Can you just see a dog running through the brush carrying sticks, vines, and leaves in it's tail ;)

The curliness of the tail is really not all that important of a trait to "be" a basenji. It should curl up over the back..but a curlier tail doesn't make a dog a more 'perfect' basenji. As Lisa said, it is a trait western breeders liked, so they selected for it. Same has been said for small ears....

[lvoss]

As for examples of the alternative colors,

Black, brindle, and white as Andrea has said is the most common as it is a combination that will naturally result because we have both tris and brindles. A very good picture of one can be seen if you click on Tazi at this website, http://www.ktcampbell.com/taji/family_tree_fs.html

Nyanabiem is a mahogany, http://basenji.org/african/Nyanabie.htm

There are examples of true creams and some blues though it is difficult to see what is really meant by blue on this website, http://www.newworldbasenjis.net/OldAds.htm

Siri's breeder wanted to register her as a blue fawn as she is really a dilute red not a cream. Her picture is at, http://basenji.org/african/Siri.htm

As for sable, there is much debate on what is actually meant by this term. Some will say dogs with a black saddle are sables others will tell you it is dogs who have black tips to their red hair. A good example of a saddle can be seen at http://basenji.org/african/B_Tena.htm

[BDawg]

IMO the curly tail is just SOOOOOO cute!! :)

[jys1011]

This is true...C3PO has a lot of African in him & his tail is not as curly as Topaz. His tail is a sort of loose swirl kinda like his personality :D

[Ambered]

vegas and sunshine's daddy Bojak's Undercover Kojak is listed as a sable. as far as i can tell he is a really dark chesnut. i know he was the #3 or 4 basenji one year and still is very high on the AKC stud list. found a picture of him here
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/Ambered_photos/PedigreeKojak.jpg

maybe there are some black tips that i cant see?

wow! i never saw siri before, absolutely gorgeous!

[Quercus]

vegas and sunshine's daddy Bojak's Undercover Kojak is listed as a sable. as far as i can tell he is a really dark chesnut. i know he was the #3 or 4 basenji one year and still is very high on the AKC stud list. found a picture of him here
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/Ambered_photos/PedigreeKojak.jpg

maybe there are some black tips that i cant see?

wow! i never saw siri before, absolutely gorgeous!

I can't imagine why he would be listed as a sable...that must be a mistake. For one thing he looks like a typical red/white, and for another thing, an "off" color dog has never been that high in the standings, nor stud list. He may be a tri factored red...which means he carries the tri genes. Often red dogs that are tri factored have black hair on the top of their tail, behind their ears, and sometimes throughout their coats when they are puppies. By the time they are grown, they are solid red.

[goldenfri]

Thanks for all of the great responses, this stuff is really interesting to me. I think its a shame that some colors seem to get lost because of early preferences. Its also too bad most of the pictures are black and white which makes it hard to see the colors.

As far as the curly tails, I would imagine that they would be troublesome in the woods because mine have very tight curls and they can't walk under the playstation controller wire without almost pulling the whole thing with them. :)

[Basenji_Boy]

As far as the curly tails, I would imagine that they would be troublesome in the woods because mine have very tight curls and they can't walk under the playstation controller wire without almost pulling the whole thing with them. :)

It's funny, our two more African B's can make their tail go completely limp. Eating, or sleeping seem to be when they do it the most. The others, the tail is so curled, no way it ever goes limp.

[YodelDogs]

vegas and sunshine's daddy Bojak's Undercover Kojak is listed as a sable. as far as i can tell he is a really dark chesnut.

I saw "Jack" many, many times over the years and he was most definately a red with no sabling. :)

[YodelDogs]

Cream puppies were born in many of the litters of the earliest imports. The creams were not albinos but were instead cream with white markings in the same areas you see in other colors. But the dogs did have pinkish noses and greenish eyes and early breeders found that unattracted. Thus the creams were not used for breeding.

The blue tris came from tris (Black, tan, white) who carried the cream gene. The color was frowned upon by breeders of that era and thus creams and blue tris have been virtually eradicated from the breed. Such a pity as I find both colors very attractive and I would love to have one someday.

[Ambered]

The blue tris came from tris (Black, tan, white) who carried the cream gene. The color was frowned upon by breeders of that era and thus creams and blue tris have been virtually eradicated from the breed. Such a pity as I find both colors very attractive and I would love to have one someday.
me too! i also love the "brown paperbag" basenjis. reds with no white on their face....soo cute.

[JazzysMom]

>>It's funny, our two more African B's can make their tail go completely limp. >>Eating, or sleeping seem to be when they do it the most. The others, the >>tail is so curled, no way it ever goes limp

Jazz is not African, and her tail is tightly curled most of the time. But she does frequently uncurl it.

>>i also love the "brown paperbag" basenjis. reds with no white on their >>face....soo cute.

I prefer a white-less face. I guess that's why I love Jazzy's look so much. She just has a little white around her nose. Seems to make the eyes stand out more.

[Quercus]

Dr. Tracy told me one time...'everyone likes the face markings that their first basenji has/had' I like a medium/thin white blaze, not too much...not too little...just like Querk's :) His daughter Luna, has a little to much for (my) perfection...and Bella (avitar) has not quite enough ;)

[JazzysMom]

>>Dr. Tracy told me one time...'everyone likes the face markings that their >>first basenji has/had'

Do you think that is by chance? Or perhaps the pups were selected because of the look?

[Quercus]

>>Dr. Tracy told me one time...'everyone likes the face markings that their >>first basenji has/had'

Do you think that is by chance? Or perhaps the pups were selected because of the look?

Well, most of people that I know didn't exactly select their pup out of the litter...it was a directed select by the breeder. We knew we were getting one of two boys out of a litter of four...and we ended up getting Querk (tinkey winkey!)...we probably would have chosen his brother Po, if the choice had been ours, because Po was a little more laid back ;) Po had very little white on his face, and I think that if we had him, we would probably prefer very little white on the face ;)

I think you just learn to prefer the face that you adore first ;)

[Ambered]

haha, i think you are right. fender has a symmetrical white streak-my absolute perfect. when i went to meet him i had not seen a picture, i saw him and knew it was fate. lol.
"love at first sight"

[lvoss]

I used to have a preference for a blaze, Nicky my first basenji has one, but now I don't think I really have any perference for face markings. I love each ones idividuality of markings. In fact their little differences are very endearing to me. Nicky has a nice medium symmetrical blaze, Rally has a salt and pepper blaze that is only just barely visible, Rio has a thin blaze that runs just a little off center, Sophie's is turning into a thin symmetrical blaze. I love Ringo's little milk mustache plain face which is very similar to Heart the red girl from our last litter who has a very lovely face. Zeke, Cole, and Ramses all have the broad blaze that runs very high up. Each one is appealing for different reasons. It is just like I love the other quirks of their markings. Like each of my dogs with the exception of Ringo who only has a lightening bolt of white on his neck each have a point where their white comes up higher onto the neck, on the broad blazed boys this white actually met their blaze when they were pups but faded with time. Nicky has an island of red his right rear sock. He also has a Georgia Peach spot in his collar of white. We named Heart because she was born with a heart of red in her white collar, it looks like just a spot now but was pretty heart shaped when she was born. I think I am just rambling now so I will stop.

[khanis]

I prefer a plainer face...
My Mom prefers more white...
the dogs we had when I was growing up generally had medium to thinner blazes..
I can remember one dog..
dont' remember his registered name..
just that I called him Fan.. the Fantastic Elastic Man! LOL
And he had a bit more white than our Rocket Man has...
for me.. that is plenty white..
I like my plain "Benny" face!
Aside from the whippet and puppies..
I have 4 intact r/w males with NO blaze and no white on their faces..
MO, (our website cover dog) has the most white in the house!

FYI.. "paperbag brown" actually was a term coined for a tan/white basenji...
meaning that the dog is not the correct color.. as a red basenji should
be chestnut red, not tan.

[Schouiffy]

Perhaps only slightly diverting.. I heard that you are not supposed breed a BW to a brindle.. is that true and why?


and it is a shame about the other colors - I really like the creams.:/

[lvoss]

The only reason why some people do not want to breed a black to a brindle is because you won't know if the black puppies in the litter carry brindle since black stripes on black background looks the same as black. In some dogs, you can see the stripes in strong sunlight.

I personally believe there are far more important factors that a breeder needs to consider than to make a breeding decision based on color. I bred my black and white girl to handsome Avongara trindle. I kept a black and white girl. I don't think she is hiding brindle stripes but we won't know until she has pups.

[tanza]

I prefer a plain face also... my favorite is white around the nose and if a blaze at all, just a very tiny white strip.... I am not a fan of the full face blaze... but then again... it is just color.. but we all have a preference...

[lvoss]

I love Rally's salt and pepper blaze. Acutally, the more I am around lots of basenjis the less preference I have for markings. I love the individuality of each basenji, just like their personalities.

[LiveWWSD]

I love Rally's salt and pepper blaze. Acutally, the more I am around lots of basenjis the less preference I have for markings. I love the individuality of each basenji, just like their personalities.


Amen to that. I REALLY wanted a red and white when I got Zaire (That is what my parents had). But Katie does not allow people to choose their dog, and she was in need of the reds that she got out of the litters for show and the next generation of breeding stock. So I got my little brindle girl. But really as I told Katie when we were discussing what she could get me. I have yet to meet a B (Or any dog really) that color becomes the ultimate factor, I just love them because they are great animals with very individual personalities.

Now if I had my choice, I would have one (or two) of EVERY color. Unfortunatly I don't live on 20+ acres to accomidate all that doggie goodness. :p

[tanza]

Amen to that. I REALLY wanted a red and white when I got Zaire (That is what my parents had). But Katie does not allow people to choose their dog, and she was in need of the reds that she got out of the litters for show and the next generation of breeding stock. So I got my little brindle girl. But really as I told Katie when we were discussing what she could get me. I have yet to meet a B (Or any dog really) that color becomes the ultimate factor, I just love them because they are great animals with very individual personalities.

Now if I had my choice, I would have one (or two) of EVERY color. Unfortunatly I don't live on 20+ acres to accomidate all that doggie goodness. :p

You will find that with most responsible breeders.... the breeder will pick the pup that suits the family... and breeders will choose the pup for themselves to fit into their breeding programs. It is the breeder that has raised the litter and knows the temperaments of the pups... spends time getting to know the families of people that would be getting a pup from them.. and can 99% of the time know which would be the best fit. I know that some may not believe that, but it has always worked for me.... and I have yet to have an unhappy puppy owner.

[LiveWWSD]

You will find that with most responsible breeders.... the breeder will pick the pup that suits the family... and breeders will choose the pup for themselves to fit into their breeding programs. It is the breeder that has raised the litter and knows the temperaments of the pups... spends time getting to know the families of people that would be getting a pup from them.. and can 99% of the time know which would be the best fit. I know that some may not believe that, but it has always worked for me.... and I have yet to have an unhappy puppy owner.

Oh I think it is definatly one of the tell tale signs of a good breeder. I would much rather get a dog based on the breeder choosing temperment for my needs. Plus it lets you know that the primary concern of the breeder is the health of their gene pool. And of course as I have said before, I couldn't have made a better choice as to wich B even if I had been able to.

A big YAY to all the breeders out there who are in it for the dogs, not the money. :D

[Schouiffy]

I find it rather silly that the breed is confined to these colors when in the "wild" they have more variation. I know there were 2 Afs that recently were imported to Finland and Sweden but are they looking to do another large import like in the 80s? perhaps with some new colors??

[lvoss]

There have been several dogs imported over the last couple of years and there is a proposal to open the studbooks with AKC. The latest update will be published in the next BCOA Bulletin.

You can see the new imports at, http://www.baystatebasenji.org/African/ImportIndex.htm

[YodelDogs]

I personally love the dilutes such as blue tri and cream. Cream was a very common occurance in the earliest litters born in the modern world. Breeders at that time did not like them however and creams were not used for breeding. Being a reccessive color, creams (and blues) still popped up here and there through the 1970's and possibly 1980's. It appears that cream and blue are now completely lost in gene pools which are solely down from the original imported dogs. Such a shame.

[Schouiffy]

It really is a large loss. In loving our breed I find it pinnacle that we embrace it in all of its' natural color variations. Ivoss - thank you for the link, I went ahead and read all the letters and found it to be informative. I'll def. keep abreast. It's very exciting to think that with an open studbook to 50 or so new imports we could finally see some recurrence of the colors which have been so hastily discarded.