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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    USA, Illinois
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    446

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemo View Post
    IMO, it would be amazing to find 5 generations of health testing to identify whether certain traits show up or not, regardless if it is a pure or mixed breeding. When I was looking for my current puppy I was lucky even to find complete health testing one to two generations back much less five. And even those one to two generations was not necessarily complete via CHIC standards.
    Nemo you make an excellent point here.

    Jason

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    The Netherlands, Almere
    Posts
    3,623

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    Quote Originally Posted by ComicDom1 View Post

    At this point, we just going to agree to disagree because we do not see scientific or valid foundation for continuing further.

    Jason and Miranda
    Well, then there is nothing to add anymore. Thanks for your clear opinion on the subject.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Mountain River, Tasmania, Australia
    Posts
    559

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJs Human View Post
    I guess some folks try to come up with "designer" breeds to sell puppies. They try to make them cuter, or try to combine the better parts of both breeds to get a better dog. That's where we got that funny-looking conglomeration called the Labridoodle, among others.
    At one time, it was a good idea. A fine example is the Australian Cattle Dog (or Heeler, as I am accustomed to calling it) wherein they mixed border collie with a couple of other breeds from England and Dingo to come up with a hardy dog who could herd cattle and survive in the Outback. My question now is: (as asked earlier in another thread) Do we have the bases covered yet?
    Im sorry AJ'S Human, but I need to correct you on the Australian Cattle Dogs heritage, (NOT Heeler, although you are welcome to call it whatever you wish )...

    There is absolutely NO Border Collie in the ACD 'mix', perhaps you are thinking of the Australian Kelpie ??? Depending on the line of thought you read, the following breeds, may or may not have been used in the development of the breed, Bull Terrier, Australian Kelpie, Dingo, Dalmatian, (?SP?), Smooth Collie, The Barb, (A forerunner to our Australian Kelpie...)..

    These are the recognised breeds, (depending on whichever train of thought you wish to believe that were used in the beginning of the ACD, over the years of its development... NO Border Collie was ever in the mix, sorry .
    Home of -
    Wazazi Dressed To Dazzle (Saba).Australian Champion Wazazi High Expectations (Ochre). Wazazi Living Doll (Vanda). Langarni African Aluko (Java).

    www.langarni-rajacadoo.com

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    "48 Lower" United States
    Posts
    1,212

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    Saba: Thanks for the correct. I had the pleasure of having an ACD in my household. (Over here in the States, we did call it Heeler for the longest time. It has been only recently this has been changed.) He was larger than most, about 22 in (55 cm) and was an excellent companion and very intelligent dog. I didn't spend a lot of time researching his genetic background, so that's where my incorrectness came in. Thanks

    Regarding other mixes: Yesterday, I met a "Jug." Whaaaaat??? A Pug/Jack Russell Terrier mix. (I've heard Jack Russell is no longer the correct term, but whatever.) The man paid $500 for this animal. Ridiculous, in my opinion.
    My issue with breeding and selling these mixes is this: In order to sell these animals for a higher price, the "breeders" (no offense meant , Janneke, please don't take it that way) tack a catchy name to the animal which is usually a hybrid of the breeds it came from, often coming up with some cutesy "new breed name" that the new owner of the animal can brag to his or her friends about. There are those of us who feel the person who buys these mixed breeds are often mislead to think their animal is a "rare breed" when, in fact, it is a mutt. I disagree with the marketing tactic. At least be honest with the final owner and be sure they understand they are not getting an animal that can be registered with AKC. Also warn them that when bragging to purists such as myself about their "purebred" Labradoodle, they may receive a snicker in response.

    Regarding the change within purebreds, I have noticed a bit of change even within the Basenji breed. People looking for a stronger looking dog, longer toes or a tighter curl of the tail...My AJ has a lovely, lazy, single-loop tail which I don't think detracts at all from his appearance. If it wasn't for his parrot bite, he would be a perfect specimen. However, he makes for an excellent pet and a very hardy and sharp looking dog. I don't have to worry about his eyes popping out when he gets upset (Pekingnese) or breathing problems (Bulldogs) or any of that other nonsense. We do have issues within the breed, most notably, Fanconi, but it appears to me the responsible breeders are trying to eliminate them. The health of the breed seems to be the main point of registering animals.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    USA, Illinois
    Posts
    446

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    AJ I wish the main point of registering animals was health but I am yet to see that as its purpose. It appears that anyone that has the proper accepted paperwork to prove their dog is purebred can register their dog at least with the AKC and as far as I know that is without regard to health. At least in the US this includes Puppy Mills, backyard breeders, and anyone else with the proper paperwork can register a dog.

    In my opinion, health is a fine example of where responsible breeders come in. From what I have always understood the goal of breeders has always been to improve the dog in regard to Form and Function and for responsible breeders this includes health. The question that I find most commonly asked by responsible Breeders is What does a particular pairing or Breeding offer the Breed?

    Unfortunately breeders will never eliminate Fanconi from the Basenji Breed, but through careful responsible breeding the likely-hood can be significantly reduced.

    Jason

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    "48 Lower" United States
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    Jason: We are agreed on this. Puppy mills and backyard breeders can be curtailed through the AKC, but they have to be found and reported. It's a balance between collecting the regi$tration fees and keeping the breeds pure. Kind of a tightrope the AKC walks.

    I did threaten one kennel with reporting to AKC and her breed's rescue group over an issue I had with her. She immediately straightened it out because she did not want to lose her registry. Papered dogs are more valuable than non-papered dogs, even though pet quality is no different.

    Cheers

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA, NW Ohio
    Posts
    3,706

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    I agree with AJ's words above...my main problem with designer dogs is that people are willing to pay big bucks for the same dog they could adopt at the shelter. If you want a mixed breed...go to a shelter!!! Don't pay someone to make cute puppies.

    People who are breeding for the right reasons, do it to preserve the breed they love..and protect its heritage. Not to make money, and not to make cute puppies for families. Great pets, great show dogs, great working dogs...they are by-products of the work and committment that great breeders put into protecting their breed's heritage.
    Andrea Walters
    Quercus Basenjis
    NW Ohio

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA, NW Ohio
    Posts
    3,706

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    Quote Originally Posted by ComicDom1 View Post
    AJ I wish the main point of registering animals was health but I am yet to see that as its purpose. It appears that anyone that has the proper accepted paperwork to prove their dog is purebred can register their dog at least with the AKC and as far as I know that is without regard to health. At least in the US this includes Puppy Mills, backyard breeders, and anyone else with the proper paperwork can register a dog.

    In my opinion, health is a fine example of where responsible breeders come in. From what I have always understood the goal of breeders has always been to improve the dog in regard to Form and Function and for responsible breeders this includes health. The question that I find most commonly asked by responsible Breeders is What does a particular pairing or Breeding offer the Breed?

    Unfortunately breeders will never eliminate Fanconi from the Basenji Breed, but through careful responsible breeding the likely-hood can be significantly reduced.

    Jason
    Jason is correct. Technically, registered dogs have no claim to better health than non-registered. They DO have the benefit of being able to trace back their ancestory, so that one can do the legwork of finding out what health issues are in the pedigree. Some registeries are notably more reliable than others as far as accuracy...AKC being the best, and most stringent as far as requirements. Oops...best in the US...sorry
    Andrea Walters
    Quercus Basenjis
    NW Ohio

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    usa, wi
    Posts
    27

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    These mixed breed dogs are always for sale. I hate that!!! Years ago most people gave away their "Mutts". I will never buy a mixed breed dog. It seems like everyone is out to make money on something that isn't genuine!!!

  10. #50
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA, Illinois
    Posts
    441

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    I have to agree with Janneke. There are some sport mixes that are very responsibly bred. Most often these dogs are bred for Flyball, and involve a herding breed mixed with a terrier.

    The border-staffy mixes mix the drive of the Staffy with the intelligence and trainablility of the herding dogs, but also to mitigate a bit of the herding breed sensitivity. I think a team of 4 Borderstaffys holds the flyball record right now?

    They are supposed to be great for what they are bred for. Super-fast, drivey, but with the "off-switch" that is missing in a lot of terriers. They supposedly breed pretty consistent, and the breeders heath test, and try to be responsible.

    The border-jack is also really popular in flyball and agility. They are smart, super drivey and hyper.

    As far as I know, neither of these mixes has been picked up by the BYB's and Puppy Mills. Neither of these mixes should go to non-sports homes.

    Lots of mushers mix greyhound or whippet into their northern breeds to add some speed to their teams. Or they often choose to breed mixed breed dogs that are superior lead dogs or the like.

    I see no problem with purpose-bred mixes, as long as their breeders are as responsible with their planning and placements as we would expect from any responsible purebred breeder.

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