here you go..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RCUN…E8DED5&index=4
Our Thoughts on Training and Raising a Basenji
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But a discussion is an exchange of opinions, often differing opinions. That is what makes it interesting.
I don't see any "beating up" happening, just an exchange of differing opinions.
"I think AAA", is met with "I disagree; I think BBB", yet another may chime in with "Nope. I believe it's CCC".
That's a discussion. In My Opinion, of course. :p
Well put.
This is a forum and people should be able to express their opinions just as long as it does not spiral into a heated argument.
We are all here to help, educate and enjoy each others company. ComicDom1 has taken the time to share with us his opinions and experiences with Roo.
People will have a difference of opinion in every topic but let us remember…every training method is different and what works for some people does not work with others. :o -
I wish Jack would have stayed in his crate in the car. When I brought him home from the shelter in his crate he screamed and screamed the entire time. Luckily, that did not detract from crate training at home. I think when he was in the car he just wanted to see out. Now, he loves riding in the car.
I don't know a lot about Jack's history, but I know he was separated from his littermates at a very young age, having had an ear eaten and all. I got him at 12 weeks, and I know the shelter had him before 8 weeks, because that is when he was neutered (shelter decision). I do think that this has a lot to do with his constant biting during play, or when he wants to play, or when he wants my attention when I am typing on here to you folks. What was the word used- bite inhibition? Yeah, he doesn't have that. Mind you, he doesn't bite hard, but he does have this nasty habit of trying to fit his entire mouth around my wrist. He also really doesn't know how to play with other dogs. I've had him around other dogs all of his life, but he tends to look at them like he doesn't quite understand what they want- when all they want is to play.
And Kudos to you for getting him to sit to put on his leash….he didn't start doing that for us until he was about a year old....after many bruised noses and black eyes. Yup, that's right. My Dog gave me a black eye. Try explaining that at work around the water cooler.
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Each pup will in the end have it's own personality.. but with a responsible breeder that takes the time to socialize a litter, keeps them until they feel they are mentally ready to join a new household, does the "proper" health testing "before" breeding… makes the biggest difference... IMO
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Dogs that miss that critical socialization period with the dam and littermates often have problems later in life communicating with other dogs. They don't learn who to read dog language as well and don't usually give signals as well.
I can totally sympathize with the black eyes and fat lips, I have this problem with the shelter dogs. The worst was the 7 month old, I don't what cross, that jumped up knocked my glasses off, as I went to pick them up he managed to then smack me in the lip. This was completely innocent on his part, he was a really goofy puppy who was just completely unaware of the fact that he was as big as a horse. Good news is that after 6 weeks of training with all the volunteers he did an automatic down and learned not to jump up on people, even kids. YAY! Sorry couldn't help it, I was really proud of this boy. He turned into such a nice dog and it was such a happy day when he got adopted.
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I would think the point would be to teach any new puppy, that there is no type of biting or nipping that is ok. Hard or Soft should not matter, "to me" nipping or biting is just not ok! I also do not think that jumping up on a person is acceptable. I have seen Roo exhibit some of the jumping up behavior also. What we do with him at that point is to direct him to sit or completely ignore him. Once he is calm, then we call him to us, we do not go to him.
In our opinion, socialization of a puppy while influenced by his litter mates, is also accomplished by exposing a puppy to many other dogs, and people. The way we accomplish this is by taking Roo on walks in the park that other dogs share, many trips to pet smart, interaction with our Boston Terrier, and exposing him to smells, sight, and sounds of the different farm animals that exist in our area, as well as exposure to all the same things in the larger city that is close to us.
To teach him to come to us both, we used a flexi leash in the park, and Cherrios for treats. He has to sit before he gets a Cherrio. We also do not allow him a treat every time he performs well for us because we want him to learn to obey without expecting them. Even my Boston Terrier likes Cherrios. Both Dogs have to sit after the walk and wait their turn for a treat. Cherrio's are very cheap, and a good training treat.
If Roo has been esp good for us for an extended time, then we give him a bully stick which he seems to love.
By the way the weather has been in the 60's and 70's here. Those temps are perfectly safe for a dog crated in a car with the windows cracked. Please keep in mind We are in the Mid West.
I also purchased a fan I found at pet smart that mounts on the front of the crate, that is designed to move Air. It will run 100 hours on 2 D batteries on the low speed. I would recommend this product to anyone. Also I am investigating the crate pads that contain crystals as well as the bandana's that are supposed to help keep dogs cool in the summer.
I always carry bottled water, food,treats, leashes, a towel, and bowls in my vehicles. Since you never know what can happen(Cars do break down), I always find it good to be prepared.
Jason
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Dogs that miss that critical socialization period with the dam and littermates often have problems later in life communicating with other dogs. They don't learn who to read dog language as well and don't usually give signals as well.
I can totally sympathize with the black eyes and fat lips, I have this problem with the shelter dogs. The worst was the 7 month old, I don't what cross, that jumped up knocked my glasses off, as I went to pick them up he managed to then smack me in the lip. This was completely innocent on his part, he was a really goofy puppy who was just completely unaware of the fact that he was as big as a horse. Good news is that after 6 weeks of training with all the volunteers he did an automatic down and learned not to jump up on people, even kids. YAY! Sorry couldn't help it, I was really proud of this boy. He turned into such a nice dog and it was such a happy day when he got adopted.
I think that is part of Jack's problem with the other dogs he meets. He gets along fine with, not fighting or aggressive towards them, but I think he feels like he doesn't quite speak their language, which makes me sad. I do really think that if he had been able to stay with his littermates longer he would not have such a problem with this. Unfortunately, that was not an option for him, so we make the best of what we've got. I really think he was separated from them at right about 8 weeks.:(
And, yeah, the bruises and black eyes are completely innocent on his part as well, he is just jumping up to give a like wet kiss….most of the time he is really confused by why I am stumbling around holding part of my face! It is such a happy day when a good shelter dog gets adopted isn't it!
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I would think the point would be to teach any new puppy, that there is no type of biting or nipping that is ok. Hard or Soft should not matter, "to me" nipping or biting is just not ok! I also do not think that jumping up on a person is acceptable. I have seen Roo exhibit some of the jumping up behavior also. What we do with him at that point is to direct him to sit or completely ignore him. Once he is calm, then we call him to us, we do not go to him.
To teach him to come to us both, we used a flexi leash in the park, and Cherrios for treats. He has to sit before he gets a Cherrio. We also do not allow him a treat every time he performs well for us because we want him to learn to obey without expecting them. Even my Boston Terrier likes Cherrios. Both Dogs have to sit after the walk and wait their turn for a treat. Cherrio's are very cheap, and a good training treat.
If Roo has been esp good for us for an extended time, then we give him a bully stick which he seems to love.
By the way the weather has been in the 60's and 70's here. Those temps are perfectly safe for a dog crated in a car with the windows cracked. Please keep in mind We are in the Mid West.
I also purchased a fan I found at pet smart that mounts on the front of the crate, that is designed to move Air. It will run 100 hours on 2 D batteries on the low speed. I would recommend this product to anyone. Also I am investigating the crate pads that contain crystals as well as the bandana's that are supposed to help keep dogs cool in the summer.
I always carry bottled water, food,treats, leashes, a towel, and bowls in my vehicles. Since you never know what can happen(Cars do break down), I always find it good to be prepared.
Jason
Believe me, we have been trying to teach Jack that nipping and biting aren't okay, and he is making some progress. At least now, when I tell him not to bite, he look at me like "That's right, you told me that before, I forgot…..here, I will lick you instead" The thing is that the very best teachers of that idea are the dogs littermates, who yelp when one of their siblings bite them too hard.....they are telling them "HEY-THAT HURTS" in their own language. Jack was separated from them are a very young age.....faaaar too young, IMO.
I will have to try Cheerios....Jack LOOOves wheat chex, too, but I am careful not to give him too many (have to watch his girlish figure)
While he is still a puppy, I would be careful of giving him blankets with crystals unless they are completely non-toxic. Up until he was about 18 months old, Jack tore every blanket in his crate apart- not out of stress or anger, just because he was redecorating.:D Don't know if that is a purely basenji thing or not....
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I would think the point would be to teach any new puppy, that there is no type of biting or nipping that is ok. Hard or Soft should not matter, "to me" nipping or biting is just not ok! I also do not think that jumping up on a person is acceptable. I have seen Roo exhibit some of the jumping up behavior also. What we do with him at that point is to direct him to sit or completely ignore him. Once he is calm, then we call him to us, we do not go to him.
Though the end goal is to teach a puppy that mouthing and nipping are not OK, trainers are in good agreement that the what gives the best results toward this goal is to first soften the bite then teach not to put teeth on human skin. Training a dog to have a soft mouth is really an important part of bite inhibition and one that should not be skipped.
For anyone interested in the training process, here is a link to an article written by Ian Dunbar. http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1/bitestop.htm
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I think that is part of Jack's problem with the other dogs he meets. He gets along fine with, not fighting or aggressive towards them, but I think he feels like he doesn't quite speak their language, which makes me sad. I do really think that if he had been able to stay with his littermates longer he would not have such a problem with this. Unfortunately, that was not an option for him, so we make the best of what we've got. I really think he was separated from them at right about 8 weeks.:(
Yeah, it is hard for them when they aren't really sure what the other dog is saying. I know a few dogs like this and they tend to have a small group of dog friends that they have learned how to talk to. They are sort of like the shy kid on the playground who doesn't know how to go up and make new friends. It is great when they are able to meet one of those dogs that is like those kids who can make friends with anyone and everyone.
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Though the end goal is to teach a puppy that mouthing and nipping are not OK, trainers are in good agreement that the what gives the best results toward this goal is to first soften the bite then teach not to put teeth on human skin. Training a dog to have a soft mouth is really an important part of bite inhibition and one that should not be skipped.
For anyone interested in the training process, here is a link to an article written by Ian Dunbar. http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1/bitestop.htm
So we are getting somewhere! Jack has learned to be soft when nipping and biting. Wow! That makes me feel great!
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By the way the weather has been in the 60's and 70's here. Those temps are perfectly safe for a dog crated in a car with the windows cracked. Please keep in mind We are in the Mid West.
JasonI was just saying that dogs can easily overheat when left in a car and it is hot outside, so to be careful for anyone who leaves them.. I was not saying that you shouldnt do it or you were wrong for doing it.. just wanted to make sure people knew of the risks involved..
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I was just saying that dogs can easily overheat when left in a car and it is hot outside, so to be careful for anyone who leaves them.. I was not saying that you shouldnt do it or you were wrong for doing it.. just wanted to make sure people knew of the risks involved..
Agree… it is well documented that even if 50 or 60 degrees outside, inside a car, even with the windows cracked and in the sun, the temperature can rise very quickly.
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Agree… it is well documented that even if 50 or 60 degrees outside, inside a car, even with the windows cracked and in the sun, the temperature can rise very quickly.
There are states in which leaving your pet in a vehicle is against the law and you will be issued a citation.
I would never leave a baby in a car. Even if it were just for a moment. Same with my B.
I'll admit…I've contacted authorities when I see dogs left in cars unattended on hot summer days. :mad: -
I go on road trips with Jack all the time, and we will leave him in the car while we are in a rest stop or getting something to eat. Windows are cracked, we usually BLAST the AC before we leave him. But, he is never in a kennel. We unclip him from his seatbelt, and he has the car to himself. We have never had a problem.
That said, we also watch what it looks like outside as we are stopping. If it could be a problem, we will eat in the car (always fun with a basenji under your nose). Generally we are doing out trips in early spring or in the fall when weather is tolerable. I think it depends on the day and the dog.
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When traveling.. stops are only for potty breaks and/or gas… never to "sit and eat..."... take out from a drive though maybe... And yes there are some days that parked under a tree and cracked windows is totally acceptable to leave them in a car for a very short period. However mine would still "always" be in a kennel, much safer, IMO.... to have them secure, same as driving. In a kennel they are "undetected" by anyone just walking by... dog knapping is not uncommon.... But in the end, using best, best judgement works.... some of us would, some of us would not leave them in a car unattended....
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What I still have not seen addressed here and while training and raising is important… how about health testing? This should be #1 with any puppy first and formost. With a young puppy of course you need to be aware that their growth plates are still open, so watching not to over do "force" exercise especially on a hard surface (roads, concrete, etc) (and no, I am not talking about walks...)... I think it is important to have patellas checked also... in case there is a problem... Eye checks are important as a base line for a puppy... and of course Fanconi testing. While DNA testing for Fanconi is not important as a puppy, it will tell you if there will be a problem in the future if they are afflicted... and that early/often strip testing will become a normal part of their care.
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When traveling.. stops are only for potty breaks and/or gas… never to "sit and eat..."... take out from a drive though maybe... And yes there are some days that parked under a tree and cracked windows is totally acceptable to leave them in a car for a very short period. However mine would still "always" be in a kennel, much safer, IMO.... to have them secure, same as driving. In a kennel they are "undetected" by anyone just walking by... dog knapping is not uncommon.... But in the end, using best, best judgement works.... some of us would, some of us would not leave them in a car unattended....
I'm sure that you meant that when you are traveling you stop only for potty breaks and gas, and never sit and eat. When we travel, we do leave him (if we judge that it is safe to do so) in the car for short periods of time while we stop and eat. (We can't do drive through anyway- the drivers side window doesn't work- that is a lot of fun on the Mass Pike). He hates being in the kennel in the car, and I hate doing it to him, so he is free to walk about the car- when we are stopped.
To tell you the truth, with my dog, I worry more about him during the winter months when traveling. Here in New England the summer is really more of a "warm spring" anyway, but the winters are cold cold cold. I think you are right- using your best best judgement works- all of us have the best interest of our animals at heart.
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Believe me, we have been trying to teach Jack that nipping and biting aren't okay, and he is making some progress. At least now, when I tell him not to bite, he look at me like "That's right, you told me that before, I forgot…..here, I will lick you instead" The thing is that the very best teachers of that idea are the dogs littermates, who yelp when one of their siblings bite them too hard.....they are telling them "HEY-THAT HURTS" in their own language. Jack was separated from them are a very young age.....faaaar too young, IMO.
I will have to try Cheerios....Jack LOOOves wheat chex, too, but I am careful not to give him too many (have to watch his girlish figure)
While he is still a puppy, I would be careful of giving him blankets with crystals unless they are completely non-toxic. Up until he was about 18 months old, Jack tore every blanket in his crate apart- not out of stress or anger, just because he was redecorating.:D Don't know if that is a purely basenji thing or not....
I think you might be surprised what you can accomplish by just telling him no biting, and either getting up and walking out of the room from him, or ignoring him. I have even left my finger or hand in Roo's mouth while I have told him no biting and he stops. We have found that unless he is wound up to play, or hungry, we have less and less of a problem. Ignoring him and staying calm has really helped us control him. In our experience, we have seen dogs react to whats demonstrated.
As far as anyone who wishes to question my experience or where my comments come from, maybe some of my background will help.
There have been dogs in my life since before I was born. My parents had and raised Doberman. I grew up with these dogs, in the house, the yard, and yes we also traveled in the car with them. In the 1950's my father used to buy the Chrysler limos just to have the extra room for the family and the animals. I have owned both AKC registered dogs and mutts, including, different breeds such as Springer Spaniel, Poodle, Old English Sheep Dog, American Black and Tan Coon Hound, American Eskimo, Boston Terrier, and even Chihuahua's. One of my favorite breeds were my Miniature Schnauzers. The only dogs I ever bred were my Schnauzers and that is because my Female had a 37 Champion Blood line and a wonderful personality, structure, health records, and markings.
Miranda also grew up with many dogs of different breeds. Miranda worked for a vet in the Davenport Iowa area for many years, and her dream which changed was to become a Vet. In fact the reason we live where we do now is because she finished her undergrad in Molecular Biology at the University of IL and U of I is one of the Top Vet Schools in the Country.
Snowy, our American Eskimo was a rescue. Snowy had been dumped, beaten with sticks by boys on bikes, and teased with hot dogs. Of course finally Snowy bit one of the boys that was abusing him. At that time the Vet that Miranda worked for was doing volunteer animal and rabies control for the county. It took Miranda a week of sitting outside Snowy's cage and being willing to share her lunch with him to get him to trust her. She was the only one that could go near him in the Kennel. After a week of this, Miranda was able to clip the dogs nails, and even shave the dog down because he was so matted.
Miranda sought and was able to get special permission to save Snowy because he was scheduled to be put down because of biting the kid. The vet had estimated Snowy at 2 years of age when they received him. Miranda had him two to 3 years before she met me. Miranda has been with me 13 years herself, so she and I together kept that dog alive for at least 15 years longer until we lost him to kidney failure back in March. Snowy knew not to bite, but would show aggression out of fear, or if he felt any member of our family was being threatened. At the time I met Miranda I have just gotten custody of my two youngest boys that were 6 and 8. Snowy never ever tried to harm or bite either one of my boys. They were part of his pack. We kept Snowy out of trouble by being responsible dog owners. Snowy was put up or muzzled if there was a sign of any issue. We never took chances with his life or any body elses.
Miranda's mother and father, also rescued, provided foster care, and adopted other breeds such as Great Danes, and even a White Shepard while she was growing up.
While Miranda and I realize that we are certainly not experts, we are very experienced. I know some might take issue with me over the following statements, but I am going to make them anyway and you can quote me.
In my opinion,
I personally do not care what the breed of a dog is. When it all comes down to it, a Dog is a Dog, is a Dog. They may have different things that they can do well over the next dog or type of dog, but underneath the breed labels they are still a dog. They have personalities, but they are not people.
Whether I have a Basenji, Great Dane, Cocker Spaniel, Poodle, Doberman, or mutt, I have found that the training methods and standards that I use for raising and training dogs work for me. This certainly does not mean they will work for you, but you never know.
I want to add that I read constantly. I have read and considered many opinions in regard to different styles of training. I have also seen conflicting opinions in reference to habits that should be allowed, so I refuse to accept any one methodology. So basically my opinions are based on my real life experiences as well as information I do accept that is supported by more than one source or expert opinion.
Add to this my previous time in the military and my understanding and respect for what the chain of command is, and maybe you will have a better understanding of where I speak from.
Anyways, sorry for the long winded post. Now maybe I can get off my soapbox. I will be sure to inspect any pad I buy for my animals for durablity. Believe me if you have ever owned a Boston, you would know that Boston's can destroy just about anything when they are teething. Their jaws are extremely strong. So far Roo has not shown us that type of power in his jaws or destructive behavior. I am sure as he grows and gets stronger that might be a possiblity. We make sure he has several toys to play with so that type of destructive energy is redirected as soon as possible.
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I think you might be surprised what you can accomplish by just telling him no biting, and either getting up and walking out of the room from him, or ignoring him. I have even left my finger or hand in Roo's mouth while I have told him no biting and he stops. We have found that unless he is wound up to play, or hungry, we have less and less of a problem. Ignoring him and staying calm has really helped us control him. In our experience, we have seen dogs react to whats demonstrated.
Really? Just say "no biting"?
I'm sure I would be surprised if I hadn't already tried that. I have had my dog for almost 2 years now. I think the point was that because he was taken from his litter at such a young age, he lost the best teachers of not biting, or biting softly…his littermates. As I said before, that couldn't be helped, so I have moved on- I can still recognize the source of the issue. Since the discussion was about the pros and cons about taking a puppy from his litter at 8 weeks that is why I brought my experiences with Jack up. Because he lost out on this formative socialization time with PEERS who speak the same language, being taken to a shelter at 8 weeks.
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Really? Just say "no biting"?
I'm sure I would be surprised if I hadn't already tried that. I have had my dog for almost 2 years now. I think the point was that because he was taken from his litter at such a young age, he lost the best teachers of not biting, or biting softly…his littermates. As I said before, that couldn't be helped, so I have moved on- I can still recognize the source of the issue. Since the discussion was about the pros and cons about taking a puppy from his litter at 8 weeks that is why I brought my experiences with Jack up. Because he lost out on this formative socialization time with PEERS who speak the same language, being taken to a shelter at 8 weeks.
Robin,
I just want to say that from your descriptions it sounds like you have made great progress with a tough situation. Jack didn't get the best start in life and you have done a great job at helping him to overcome the problems that come with a rough start. It is true that some of his problems may never truly be solved but can be managed as you have described in other posts.
As a general statement, I think most of us are so passionate about importance of early socialization and the role of a responsible breeder because we have had first hand experience with dogs who have not had the best start. There are many lifelong issues that come with lack of early socialization and many dogs end up in the shelter when inexperienced owners become overwhelmed. My hats off to those who take the time and exercise the patience it takes to work with these dogs over the course of their lives.
