Retalitory Peeing?

[chitsman]

We have a 13 week old female tri named Zola. We are a family of four; parents and two boys 10 & 5, plus a cat.

We have been working on the potty training since the day we brought Zola home. She has a grassy spot in our back yard where she is always taken to do her business. Since we live in SoCal we leave a back door open so that she can let herself out to go potty, which she does occassionally, she is still learning. The rest of the time we take her out to her spot and have her go potty, and she is very good about it.

Yesterday she went in the house 4 times. This morning while I was getting dressed for work, she was getting into my closet wanting to drag things off to play. I told her "no" several times and each time redirected her toward the door. After the third time, she turned her back to me and started going pee on the floor! I told her "no", picked her up and put her outside.

So my questions is… Will a Basenji pee right in front of you if she is angry at you for some reason? Can they be spiteful?

We give her so much love and attention. I don't understand?

Any insight on the issue, and correcting the behavior would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[lvoss]

She is a puppy, they pee. It isn't spite. Puppies often "forget" that they have to go until the HAVE to go.

That is why when housetraining the basic rule of thumb is if in doubt take them out. Take them out when they wake, take them out when they start playing, take them out after playing, take them out after they eat, take them out after they drink, take them out before they go to bed, and you'll still probably miss a few times where you should take them out.

[lvoss]

Also, taking the puppy toward the door is NOT enough. You need to take the puppy out and be there to praise, praise, praise, when the pup does its business outside.

[lvoss]

Who is Zola's breeder? Do you know if they litter trained their puppies? Did they send you home with some housetraining articles?

[chitsman]

Her breeder is Stella Sapios. I'm not sure what litter training is? Do you mean cat litter, or puppy litter?

We didn't get housetraining articles, but we had purchased a housetraing book as well as a Basenji breed book. We read them front to back several times before we brought our puppy home.

I'm sure you are correct, she is still a puppy, and still learning about the house training. Her behavior at that moment seemed to deliberate to me. I'm sure I am just projecting onto her. My bad.

lvoss, where are you in California? Let me know if you know any good trainers in the Ventura area. We want to start Zola in a puppy class as soon as possible. She is excellent at "sit" and she is doing a good job on the leash. She is distracted easily on her walks, but she is young and it is a big new world out there right now. We have friends with dogs so she is getting some social skills too. But a puppy class would be great for our boys to be involved with and be part of the training.

[lvoss]

I am in Northern California and my mom is in Orange County.

There are two CPDT (Certified Pet Dog Trainers) located in Ventura. Those are probably the best places to start looking for a puppy kindergarten class.

http://www.petwellnesscoach.com/
http://www.inquisitivecanine.com/

[lvoss]

Some breeders train their puppies to use a puppy litter box with puppy litter.

[chitsman]

Thanks for the breeder links. I have sent them emails.

I hadn't heard of litter box training for puppies. Interesting. But no, our puppy was not litter trained.

[thunderbird8588]

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your new Puppy.
I agree with everything Ivoss says, you have some good advice there, Zola is just a baby.
We get our Puppy in a few more days so will be in the same boat as you. Good luck finding a class.

[lighthouseparkB]

Our B girl Vi occasionally pees in retaliation - she did so when being corrected for something as a puppy, but stopped when I would hold her belly up (like cradling a baby) as soon as she squatted to pee and get her outside. Since she didn't want to soil herself, after one or two more attempts she got the idea.

However, she still will spite pee once in a while…about a year ago when someone was house-sitting for us and gave her what she considered too short a walk, Vi went through a slightly ajar baby gate slightly to the basement, pushed the guest bedroom door open and peed on the bed.

[listeme]

Zelda is almost 13 weeks now and probably right at the same stage. She still is completely supervised 100 percent of the time. If she is not in her crate, she is within 8 feet of a human that is responsible for her. (Knowingly responsible, that is – if one of us "has the conn", which is our goofy way of naming the adult who is in charge of her, we won't even dash into the bathroom ourselves without turning the conn back over to someone else. She is always under someone's eyeball or she is in her crate.

She is NOT house-trained yet. We take her out to pee right out of the crate, after she eats, after she dashes around, if one of us thinks "hm, I wonder when she last peed", etc. And every once in a while she STILL manages to forget or get distracted or excited or worried or puppy-headed and pee right in front of us

All that is to say -- Zola seems like she's right on schedule

[lvoss]

Very good post listeme.

My puppy is 9 weeks old and he always looks at me very seriously when he pees. He is waiting for feedback. He wants to know if he is a "good puppy" or if it is going to be "Ack" and hurrying outside. He's still learning and every accident he has is my fault for not getting him where he needed to be on time.

[Anette]

Mine is 10 weeks tomorrow - and I can't say that he is completly housetrained yet, but we have verry few acidents. Ofcourse he failes if I dont pay attention. He is with me almost all the time, and when I have to leave him for a sec he is on the kitchen. (I dont use crates - but have a babygate)

Dogs - at least puppies - does not pee in retaliation if it comes as a reaction to punishment it is either out of fear, submission or that they just could not hold it anymore.

[chitsman]

I appreciate all the input.

We are very diligent about getting Zola outside to pee also. When she comes out of her crate, after sleeping/napping, after playing, etc. But since we are a family, there are times when we are caught up in homework, cooking dinner, doing a bath for the little, etc. and we miss the window. We realize that is not Zola's mistake, but ours for not paying attention to her or the time since she last went out.

She is a great pup, but she is strong headed. One big challenge is with our 5 year old. He wants to hug and lover her, but all he gets in return is a chewing. Zola doesn't bother the rest of us with the biting much, but with the 5 year old she seems to take advantage of him and his inablilty to control the situation properly. But if she is sleeping, she is happy to curl up next to him.

I saw something in a different post that has me curious who others are handling this. We have given Zola free rein to jump up on the couch and sleep or sit with us. In the other post someone mentioned only letting the dog on the couch when the dog is asked to be on the couch. What are other doing in this situation? I would really like to know. At this point Zola just jumps up at anytime she wants to. I think it would be difficult to change that behavior now. But if we should I want to get started on it now.

Thanks again everyone.

[Rivermoon]

Hi…I have one of Zola's litter mates and while she's doing very good with potty training, she is no where near potty trained yet. In my circumstances, I cannot take her out at night unless she's leashed and there are times that she just can't or won't wait. I have paper down in the bathroom and also in a few other places in the house. Stella had them pretty well paper trained, although she had Zuni two weeks longer than Zola because I was traveling. I guess some would say this is confusing her but it's what works for us. During the day, if the dogs are playing at the far end of the house, she'll use the paper..if they're near the doggie door, she'll go outside. Once she can hold her bladder longer and is big enough to not be eaten by owls, the paper will slowly come up and I'll have to make sure she makes it out the doggie door all the time.

I personally let all 4 of my dogs on the couch without being asked up, but if I want them off, they get off when told.

[chitsman]

Rivermoon, that is so cool that you have one of Zola's litter mates. Are all four of your dogs basenji's? If so, you must be an expert on the breed. The two in your avatar are beautiful. Perhaps someday we can get Zuni and Zola together for a play date.

I'm surprised how many of the Basenji's have names that start with "Z". When we named Zola, I had no idea. We thought of naming her Lola at first. Our cat is named Zuka, so I suggested Zola and everyone seemed to like it. So now we have Zuka and Zola. It can be difficult when you are trying to remember which one you are calling. LOL.

[Rivermoon]

No, I have 3 basenjis and 1 vizsla, and am no where near an expert on the breed. I learn a little more with each dog…..I'd need a lot more before I would know half of what most people here do. With some things it's hit or miss and you have to find what works best for you and your family.

All my b's are from Stella. Which one is Zola...one of the tris or the spunky red and white???? I'm out in Riverside, but would love to try to get them together some day.

I guess there are a lot of basenji's with Z names....and a cat too..lol! HAHA...I call all my dogs by the wrong names all the time. I even sometimes call Apache my first basenji's name and he's been gone almost 5 years now.

I hope you're having as much fun with Zola as I am with Zuni. She does become piranha puppy from time to time, mostly when she's hungry or tired....I'm able to stop her, most of the time, I feel for your son. You may want him to hold on to something else that she can chew instead of him, like a bully stick or a toy, and when she gets rambunctious, direct her attention to that item. It's worth a try!

[chitsman]

Yes, Zola is one of the tri's. How about Zuni, is she a tri too, or red & white?

How have your older B's been with accepting Zuni into the household? Are they pretty accepting? We took Zola back to Stella to get her second series of shots, and Jewel and the other two females were right on top of Zola letting her know that they were in charge. They wouldn't let her walk around for about 1/2 an hour, then they lightened up and let her play.

[Rivermoon]

I love the tri's…as you can see, but this time I went back to red/white like my first b.. Zuni is the one with the big white neck.

My b's have been wonderful with her. Chey watches over her and keeps her in her place and will occasionally play with her. Apache, poor guy, he just lets Zuni beat him up..lol. He's the one that always plays with her, gets up when she does and thinks she's the best thing on 4 legs. My vizsla pretty much tries to ignore her. I call him the grumpy grandpa.

HAHA...I know just what the girls did to Zola. They still do that to Apache whenever I take him over there. I took Zuni to Stella's salon for her second shot so didn't see the girls.

[chitsman]

Well if you go to Stella for the third set of shots, let me know and perhaps we can get the puppies together. That would be a lot of fun!